Salmond and his evil plan. Watch

TIS200
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My eyes have never burned so much. The sound of his evil plan is so repulsive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32045419

Basically, the SNP (well, Alex) wants to block out the Tory government with a coalition with Labour. Thoughts on this? It would be against democracy.. You can't block parties (well the Nazis did..). Starting something, eh Alex?

GET YOUR DIRTY HANDS OFF OUR DEMOCRACY & ENGLAND, ALEX!
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caitb97
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(Original post by TIS200)
My eyes have never burned so much. The sound of his evil plan is so repulsive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32045419

Basically, the SNP (well, Alex) wants to block out the Tory government with a coalition with Labour. Thoughts on this? It would be against democracy.. You can't block parties (well the Nazis did..). Starting something, eh Alex?

GET YOUR DIRTY HANDS OFF OUR DEMOCRACY & ENGLAND, ALEX!
Nicola Sturgeon is the SNP leader??
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Fanatical Geek
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(Original post by caitb97)
Nicola Sturgeon is the SNP leader??
Indeed.

But to suggest Alex Salmond doesn't have influence and/or a motive is simply not true.

He's been quoted telling people in England to "vote Conservative" because it'd add to the case for independence if English and Scottish voters voted even more differently than they do already.

Fact is he, and his party, still want to break up the UK - and if Milliband loved the UK as much as he claims he'd have nothing to do with them.


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TIS200
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WHY didn't we the English get a vote in the independence? Not joking or anything but thanks to David Cameron (my party leader) and Ed Miliband, we have them constantly trying to get their hands on our country, they get free medicine paid for by our government when we don't? Not too filled in on this part of parliament but I know enough to base my opinion
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caitb97
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(Original post by TIS200)
Not too filled in on this part of parliament
Evidently.
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TIS200
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(Original post by caitb97)
Evidently.
I know enough to base my opinion, why didn't we get to vote for independence too? Surely, we should be able to vote whether we want to be part of this union anymore? Why should the Scottish vote and we don't?
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caitb97
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(Original post by TIS200)
I know enough to base my opinion, why didn't we get to vote for independence too? Surely, we should be able to vote whether we want to be part of this union anymore? Why should the Scottish vote and we don't?
The English didn't get a vote because there wasn't a large demand for it? I'm actually jealous of the Scots having a chance to get away from David Cameron.
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TIS200
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Let's not turn this in to a big party debate. All I wanted to know was opinions on the SNP wanting to block the Tory government. It is a clear breach of democracy that our grandparents fought for.
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caitb97
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(Original post by TIS200)
Let's not turn this in to a big party debate. All I wanted to know was opinions on the SNP wanting to block the Tory government. It is a clear breach of democracy that our grandparents fought for.
Because the tories are w*nkers who only care about the rich, privatising the nhs and evading tax?
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TIS200
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What are Labour then? Grooming gang lovers (Rotherham 1800), they love immigrants, sod the rest of us! I think you are forgetting this. I think you are also forgetting about all them lives lost in WW1 and WW2, we live in a liberal utopia now that the state wants to control us and everything we say.

I come from a Tory family. Hardworking, my dad owns a successful small business, we pay our taxes and what? For immigrants to get special treatment? For people who sit on their arses all day eating nothing but McDonalds, watching Jezza Kyle? HARD WORKING MONEY and thanks to the Tory government, this has been reduced. More people are in to work and YES, I support:

Privatising the NHS,
Zero hour contracts,
The Coalition and many other great tory achievements, I wouldn't be proud of Labour on the other hand!
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democracyforum
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(Original post by TIS200)
My eyes have never burned so much. The sound of his evil plan is so repulsive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32045419

Basically, the SNP (well, Alex) wants to block out the Tory government with a coalition with Labour. Thoughts on this? It would be against democracy.. You can't block parties (well the Nazis did..). Starting something, eh Alex?

GET YOUR DIRTY HANDS OFF OUR DEMOCRACY & ENGLAND, ALEX!
no different than everyone in England, telling Scots what to do
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TIS200
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We don't block Labour though do we?

They had their chance to break away, but bye, gone down the swanny.
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Ghughes92
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(Original post by TIS200)
WHY didn't we the English get a vote in the independence? Not joking or anything but thanks to David Cameron (my party leader) and Ed Miliband, we have them constantly trying to get their hands on our country, they get free medicine paid for by our government when we don't? Not too filled in on this part of parliament but I know enough to base my opinion
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

NHS Scotland and the SQA (qualifications authority/education as a whole) are DEVOLVED from Westminster. In lay man's terms, that means that it is Holyrood who decide whether we pay for education or prescriptions, not Westminster. The budget for these services is assigned by the Scottish Government.

As for the vote. It is very obvious why the English never got the vote. The population of England is approximately 10 times that of Scotland. As a rough estimation you're looking at 5/6 million vs 50/60 million.

If the English were enfranchised then it would be a completely pointless vote because the Scottish people would then have no say over their own future, all it would take is a small proportion of heavily conservative voters. Say, the South East for example. To vote in whatever way the Tories tell them to and then the Scottish people themselves would have had their own independence vote taken from them. It would be completely undemocratic. At least try to insert some common sense to your argument yea?


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caitb97
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(Original post by TIS200)
What are Labour then? Grooming gang lovers (Rotherham 1800), they love immigrants, sod the rest of us! I think you are forgetting this. I think you are also forgetting about all them lives lost in WW1 and WW2, we live in a liberal utopia now that the state wants to control us and everything we say.

I come from a Tory family. Hardworking, my dad owns a successful small business, we pay our taxes and what? For immigrants to get special treatment? For people who sit on their arses all day eating nothing but McDonalds, watching Jezza Kyle? HARD WORKING MONEY and thanks to the Tory government, this has been reduced. More people are in to work and YES, I support:

Privatising the NHS,
Zero hour contracts,
The Coalition and many other great tory achievements, I wouldn't be proud of Labour on the other hand!
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GeneralStudent95
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On a point of technicality, voting down the Queens Speech does nothing of constitutional importance; while it is symbolic, and it would be very difficult for a government to continue after such a defeat, it wouldn't "lock Cameron out" or force a new election or anything of the like. Salmond, and the BBC for that matter, need to read the FTPA more closely.

To oust Cameron there would need to be a specific motion "This House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government" which is passed by a majority. Sure, if the Conservatives were minority with no other support this could easily be done, but the Conservatives won't enter into a naked minority government; if they decide to go down the minority government route they will do so with "supply and demand" agreements with other parties who, in return for legislation, would promise to support a Conservative government during budgets, Queens Speech and confidence motions.

I believe the DUP are quite keen on this type of arrangement; if the Conservative party promised additional funds for NI then they would court the support of the DUP on such matters which might be enough to get them over the majority, thereby blocking Salmond in his tracks.
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Smack
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(Original post by TIS200)
Let's not turn this in to a big party debate. All I wanted to know was opinions on the SNP wanting to block the Tory government. It is a clear breach of democracy that our grandparents fought for.
If the SNP and Labour (and anyone else who wants to join in) have more seats than the Conservatives...
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Fanatical Geek
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(Original post by Smack)
If the SNP and Labour (and anyone else who wants to join in) have more seats than the Conservatives...
It's a tough one isn't it?

Let's say the Conservatives get the most seats of one party (but not a majority) and then get less support in the forms of coalitions, supply and demand schemes etc

Is it then right for Milliband to be PM based on left wing (Plaid, SNP, Greens etc.) support? Is that in the interests of democracy, or is it more in the interests of the politicians themselves?

I think it's a situation that could genuinely happen, so it's worth thinking about.


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scrotgrot
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(Original post by TIS200)
Let's not turn this in to a big party debate. All I wanted to know was opinions on the SNP wanting to block the Tory government. It is a clear breach of democracy that our grandparents fought for.
No, this is the way our democracy works. If Tories are so butthurt about it maybe they should have allowed the vote on STV in 2011 and campaigned for Yes.

What really does offend me is the Tory presumption of right to rule. If you only have 270 seats, you do not have a majority.

It's not the SNP's fault that the Tories are so toxic nobody will want to ally with them (other than the equally toxic Lib Dems).
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Fanatical Geek
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(Original post by scrotgrot)
No, this is the way our democracy works. If Tories are so butthurt about it maybe they should have allowed the vote on STV in 2011 and campaigned for Yes.

What really does offend me is the Tory presumption of right to rule. If you only have 270 seats, you do not have a majority.

It's not the SNP's fault that the Tories are so toxic nobody will want to ally with them (other than the equally toxic Lib Dems).
But what if they're the largest single party - but the other smaller parties ally together just because they don't like the Conservatives, and want to "keep them out."

Technically speaking, there's nothing constitutionally undemocratic about that, but in that scenario are they acting int the interests of the people? Or the parties themselves?

Is that democratic? That it's possible that the party with the most votes may not end up in government?




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Ghughes92
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(Original post by Fanatical Geek)
But what if they're the largest single party - but the other smaller parties ally together just because they don't like the Conservatives, and want to "keep them out."

Technically speaking, there's nothing constitutionally undemocratic about that, but in that scenario are they acting int the interests of the people? Or the parties themselves?

Is that democratic? That it's possible that the party with the most votes may not end up in government?




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The party with the most votes WILL end up in government. There is no argument there, it's a matter of whether or not they have power in the house to pursue their goals.

Other parties can't just band together and take office instead. That's not how life works.

The party that wins the election takes office and prepares policies. How many of them will pass will then be in the hands of however holds power in the commons.

For example. Let's say the Conservatives win but with a minority government. (Hypothetical). Assume the Tories submit a proposal to raise tuition fees further. It goes to the house, the Tories and Lib Dems vote for it but Labour, Green and SNP have more seats and therefore more votes against so the bill is shelved.

It may be that Labour wouldn't be so against it (doubtful) but the SNP are fervently against such a policy. If the SNP are supplying confidence votes to Labour interests then the deal has to work both ways so they agree to vote in unison against it to secure each other's confidence in later situations.

It would just be that for 5 years.


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