whats more evil corrupt capitalism or religion Watch

sdvds
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greed or faith
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DiddyDec
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Religion. I reckon it has done more harm since its creation than capitalism could ever do.
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crysostom
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Capitalism itself is a faith in greed.

Religion is simply faith in God or whatever have you, but it has been twisted countless times and is rife with abominable individuals throughout history. Pure faith on it's own is not a bad thing. If everyone's faith was pure all wouldn't be so bad. But that's impossible. Ignorant faith and contaminated faith etc are what have made religion the mess it is.

So thinking about it, I'd say capitalism is worse. It feeds humanity's greed and is the main cause of greed in conjunction with religion. Greed is the heart of religion's problems. Capitalism stagnates the progress of the individual spiritually. But I'll concede that I can't think of an alternative that would be equally efficient for human survival and freedom, but that makes it seem even more messed up to me. And I'm not a religious guy.


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User1824259
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Who's more evil: a banker or a librarian?
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R£SP£CT
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Capitalism without a doubt.
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Daenerys...
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Religion. I reckon it has done more harm since its creation than capitalism could ever do.

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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Daenerys...)
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No, it is just my opinion.
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mojojojo101
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#8
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The two (along with the State as well) are equally oppressive. They just oppress different aspects of our humanity.
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tengentoppa
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It's far easier to get rid of corruption than it is to get rid of religion.
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Cremated_Spatula
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This comparison is very flawed, Capitalism is a specific political system but there are many different religions. Not only that but how does a political system equate to a belief or organization?

PS corrupt can mean perverted integrity or it can mean dishonesty and evil is subjective.
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viddy9
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I think that capitalism, in its pure form, is intrinsically bad. It promotes inequality, greed and a wage labour system that thrives on exploitation.

Luckily, we get socialised elements such as the welfare state, universal healthcare and other public services which ensure that we don't fall into a complete capitalist dystopia.

Believing in a God and an afterlife just means that one can 'justify' any action, no matter how indefensible, seeing as one thinks that one has an omniperfect being on one's side. But, most religious people wouldn't commit acts that are indefensible in the first place, and many religions stress the importance of helping the poor.

All in all, I'd say capitalism is more of an evil idea.
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zippity.doodah
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corrupt capitalism doesn't murder people, although it is terrible. so, religion, at least in its original/orthodox format (which was the intended format, obviously; the bible wouldn't say you should be killed for homosexuality if it didn't mean it)
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The_Mighty_Bush
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Capitalism isn't evil.
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Wade-
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(Original post by crysostom)
Capitalism itself is a faith in greed.

Religion is simply faith in God or whatever have you, but it has been twisted countless times and is rife with abominable individuals throughout history. Pure faith on it's own is not a bad thing. If everyone's faith was pure all wouldn't be so bad. But that's impossible. Ignorant faith and contaminated faith etc are what have made religion the mess it is.

So thinking about it, I'd say capitalism is worse. It feeds humanity's greed and is the main cause of greed in conjunction with religion. Greed is the heart of religion's problems. Capitalism stagnates the progress of the individual spiritually. But I'll concede that I can't think of an alternative that would be equally efficient for human survival and freedom, but that makes it seem even more messed up to me. And I'm not a religious guy.


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'Capitalism itself is a faith in greed.' - that makes no sense.

I hate this impression that whenever people do bad things and use religion as an excuse people always say 'they've got it wrong', how do you know it's not you that has it wrong.

What is spiritual progress meant to mean?


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Gnomes&Knights
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Easily capitalism, capitalism disgusts me.
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crysostom
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(Original post by Wade-)
'Capitalism itself is a faith in greed.' - that makes no sense.

I hate this impression that whenever people do bad things and use religion as an excuse people always say 'they've got it wrong', how do you know it's not you that has it wrong.

What is spiritual progress meant to mean?


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You may disagree with it for you believe it not to be true, but it is not non-sensical. I respect where you're coming from though. But I do not see how a system dictated by money and that plays on people's need or desire for it, can manage to survive without there being a general belief that greed is good, or necessary at least.

And I may have it wrong, but I'm not going to say that people who do bad things and use religion as the excuse have got it right.

As to what I mean by spiritual progress, Its the idea that real progress starts from within, and the idea of it being a possible cure for a capitalist society. I say this roughly along the lines of Aristotle's Virtue Ethics.

Essentially I was thinking that one ought to focus on themselves as a moral and spiritual being according to what one intrinsically feels to be good (of course, that's a very subjective thing), then oneself and one's immediate surroundings will generally improve through their more enlightened actions.
Perhaps it is a better substitute for the the way capitalism promotes; (in an extremely basic form) 'make more money so that you can live and you shall be a good person.' But also I find today that in many cases people go out into the world, utterly taken with some belief (maybe religion of some sort), ideology or desire to improve the world, in an attempt to make it better without at first checking oneself, and taking time over it. Internal before external.

And I feel that when someone studying their internal self and their outlook on life, with any luck they'll at least figure that people are entitled to believe and think what they want to. I'm not enforcing upon you that this is the way people, let alone yourself, should act. I'm only talking bout it because you asked and cause it's something I've been mulling over recently. But it's a big old open ended subject. And I wouldn't want to stray any further from the original question.



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Wade-
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(Original post by crysostom)
You may disagree with it for you believe it not to be true, but it is not non-sensical. I respect where you're coming from though. But I do not see how a system dictated by money and that plays on people's need or desire for it, can manage to survive without there being a general belief that greed is good, or necessary at least.

And I may have it wrong, but I'm not going to say that people who do bad things and use religion as the excuse have got it right.

As to what I mean by spiritual progress, Its the idea that real progress starts from within, and the idea of it being a possible cure for a capitalist society. I say this roughly along the lines of Aristotle's Virtue Ethics.

Essentially I was thinking that one ought to focus on themselves as a moral and spiritual being according to what one intrinsically feels to be good (of course, that's a very subjective thing), then oneself and one's immediate surroundings will generally improve through their more enlightened actions.
Perhaps it is a better substitute for the the way capitalism promotes; (in an extremely basic form) 'make more money so that you can live and you shall be a good person.' But also I find today that in many cases people go out into the world, utterly taken with some belief (maybe religion of some sort), ideology or desire to improve the world, in an attempt to make it better without at first checking oneself, and taking time over it. Internal before external.

And I feel that when someone studying their internal self and their outlook on life, with any luck they'll at least figure that people are entitled to believe and think what they want to. I'm not enforcing upon you that this is the way people, let alone yourself, should act. I'm only talking bout it because you asked and cause it's something I've been mulling over recently. But it's a big old open ended subject. And I wouldn't want to stray any further from the original question.



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Well you said that religion had been corrupted so you are sort of suggesting that people have it wrong and use it for their own nefarious activities. I see no reason to suggest that those people are wrong but those who don't do these are wrong.

When you use words like spiritual you make me think about religion and supernatural powers, things that there is no reason to suggest even exist. I see no reason why these things should take precedent over anything. The capitalist system has allowed us to progress technologically because it creates a reason to compete and plays into the nature of humans to want more


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crysostom
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(Original post by Wade-)
Well you said that religion had been corrupted so you are sort of suggesting that people have it wrong and use it for their own nefarious activities. I see no reason to suggest that those people are wrong but those who don't do these are wrong.

When you use words like spiritual you make me think about religion and supernatural powers, things that there is no reason to suggest even exist. I see no reason why these things should take precedent over anything. The capitalist system has allowed us to progress technologically because it creates a reason to compete and plays into the nature of humans to want more


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How has it not been corrupted? And so to you people who use religion for their own ends regardless of the well being of others are right to act in such a way? Do tell me if I'm misunderstanding.
But if these people are right, is that not slightly contradictory on your part? When these people believe in and govern their actions in accordance with supernatural powers and higher beings, things that you yourself feel there is 'no reason to suggest even exist' ? How could they not be wrong if you are right?

Indeed, I too feel that such things shouldn't take precedent over everything. Nothing should take precedent over everything. But I in no way made any suggestion of these supernatural powers or beings that occurred to you. The spirituality I was referring to is specifically restricted internally to the individual. And if you dislike this spiritual side to it, what I was talking about could potentially serve as a good and useful form of ethics. A form of ethics widely acknowledged throughout history. Attempting to better the world around you by trying to better oneself. There's nothing harmful in that, and no need for the spiritual or supernatural, let alone religion. Religion, certainly to begin with, should not pollute these ethics in any way whatsoever.

And yes, the capitalist system is by nature progressive. I mentioned earlier that I could not think of a better alternative. But as with anything founded on greed, that doesn't make it morally good, it simply makes it necessary, at least until the unforseeable future.


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zippity.doodah
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(Original post by Raymat)
Easily capitalism, capitalism disgusts me.
individual liberty disgusts you?
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StrangeBanana
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#20
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
It's far easier to get rid of corruption than it is to get rid of religion.
Is that relevant?
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