How could Labour govern with an anti-British political party (SNP)?!

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billydisco
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#1
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#1
Oh wait, Labour are anti-British too.....

In all seriousness, I predict riots if the SNP are controlling England, along with Labour.
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Teaddict
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#2
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#2
While the Scottish National Party are anti-British in the sense they oppose the British state, I think you would be taking it somewhat too far if you concluded they were anti-British or anti-English in terms of hating the people. I also find this notion that inviting the Scottish National Party into government is some how outrageous. Scotland is a part of the United Kingdom and therefore its representatives should be treated with the same respect we would give representatives from the other corners of the United Kingdom. If the Scottish National Party proves to be the largest party in Scotland, then to deny them privileges within parliament, including the right to form a government in Westminster, would be to treat Scotland as a second class citizen within the Union. As a Unionist, I am opposed to treating Scotland in this manner, even if I thoroughly disagree with the motivations and policies of the Scottish National Party.
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billydisco
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#3
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#3
(Original post by Teaddict)
While the Scottish National Party are anti-British in the sense they oppose the British state, I think you would be taking it somewhat too far if you concluded they were anti-British or anti-English in terms of hating the people. I also find this notion that inviting the Scottish National Party into government is some how outrageous. Scotland is a part of the United Kingdom and therefore its representatives should be treated with the same respect we would give representatives from the other corners of the United Kingdom. If the Scottish National Party proves to be the largest party in Scotland, then to deny them privileges within parliament, including the right to form a government in Westminster, would be to treat Scotland as a second class citizen within the Union. As a Unionist, I am opposed to treating Scotland in this manner, even if I thoroughly disagree with the motivations and policies of the Scottish National Party.
How can a party who doesn't want to be a part of the UK, govern the UK?!

It would be in the SNP's interests to cause problems in the UK!
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Arbolus
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#4
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#4
(Original post by Teaddict)
While the Scottish National Party are anti-British in the sense they oppose the British state, I think you would be taking it somewhat too far if you concluded they were anti-British or anti-English in terms of hating the people. I also find this notion that inviting the Scottish National Party into government is some how outrageous. Scotland is a part of the United Kingdom and therefore its representatives should be treated with the same respect we would give representatives from the other corners of the United Kingdom. If the Scottish National Party proves to be the largest party in Scotland, then to deny them privileges within parliament, including the right to form a government in Westminster, would be to treat Scotland as a second class citizen within the Union. As a Unionist, I am opposed to treating Scotland in this manner, even if I thoroughly disagree with the motivations and policies of the Scottish National Party.
All that would be true if English MPs were treated with the same respect in Scotland, and they're not. For all practical purposes, when it comes to everyday domestic affairs the jurisdiction of the Westminster parliament and government has been reduced to cover England only (and Wales to some extent), since so much has been devolved to Holyrood, Stormont and Cardiff. The SNP would be up in arms if the Tories tried to overrule them in a Scottish devolved area, and yet they've said they would be perfectly happy to try and overrule the Tories in those same areas in England if the Tories turn out to be the largest English party again. At this time, it's the SNP which is treating everyone else as a second class citizen rather than the other way around.
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Swanbow
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#5
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#5
I predict a lot of angry comments on the Daily Mail. In reality I suspect that Labour and the SNP would try their utmost to keep things afloat and people would get on with their lives as usual.

My main problem with the SNP is their commitment to anti-austerity and nuclear disarmament. Both are foolish policies. But neither are prohibitive to a Labour minority government working as the Conservatives and Lib Dems could back them on it.
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billydisco
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#6
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#6
(Original post by Swanbow)
I predict a lot of angry comments on the Daily Mail. In reality I suspect that Labour and the SNP would try their utmost to keep things afloat and people would get on with their lives as usual.

My main problem with the SNP is their commitment to anti-austerity and nuclear disarmament. Both are foolish policies. But neither are prohibitive to a Labour minority government working as the Conservatives and Lib Dems could back them on it.
Why should the SCOTTISH national party have a say on English matters, when English MPs have no say on Socttish matters?
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username878267
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#7
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#7
So we don't want the scots to be independent but we don't want them to have any say in Parliament.
Labour wouldn't be governing with the SNP anyway. They won't be in government, it would be a labour minority with the SNP voting with it on certain issues.
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Jammy Duel
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#8
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#8
(Original post by Bornblue)
So we don't want the scots to be independent but we don't want them to have any say in Parliament.
Labour wouldn't be governing with the SNP anyway. They won't be in government, it would be a labour minority with the SNP voting with it on certain issues.
Oh, I would be more than happy to let them govern my nation if they are kind enough to give back powers so that my elected officials can govern theirs. Should we let the French join this little game, let's give each French region a seat in our parliament too, why not North Korea, Russia, Iran and IS while we're at it?
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Hype en Ecosse
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#9
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#9
(Original post by billydisco)
Why should the SCOTTISH national party have a say on English matters, when English MPs have no say on Socttish matters?
Scotland isn't a fully devolved nation. English MPs DO have a say on Scottish matters.
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billydisco
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
Scotland isn't a fully devolved nation. English MPs DO have a say on Scottish matters.
Do Scottish and English politicians have an equal level of influence over how the other country is run?
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billydisco
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#11
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#11
(Original post by Bornblue)
So we don't want the scots to be independent but we don't want them to have any say in Parliament.
If the English had been allowed to vote on Scottish independence, do you honestly think we would have voted for them to stay?
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Hype en Ecosse
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#12
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#12
(Original post by billydisco)
Do Scottish and English politicians have an equal level of influence over how the other country is run?
No. Scottish politicians have far less influence on England than English politicians have on Scotland. There are 59 Scottish seats in parliament, out of 650. It's a bit hard for us to have a lot of influence on England. :lol:
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billydisco
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#13
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#13
(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
No. Scottish politicians have far less influence on England than English politicians have on Scotland. There are 59 Scottish seats in parliament, out of 650. It's a bit hard for us to have a lot of influence on England. :lol:
And how many seats in the Scottish parliament contain English politicians?
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Hype en Ecosse
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#14
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#14
(Original post by billydisco)
And how many seats in the Scottish parliament contain English politicians?
Probably quite a few (similar to Natalie Bennett actually being Austrailian ), but zero representing English constituencies. But as I said before, Scotland is not a fully devolved nation. Not all decisions affecting Scotland are made in the Scottish Parliament.
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billydisco
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#15
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#15
(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
Probably quite a few (similar to Natalie Bennett actually being Austrailian ), but zero representing English constituencies. But as I said before, Scotland is not a fully devolved nation. Not all decisions affecting Scotland are made in the Scottish Parliament.
Scotland has 59/650 influence on ALL English matters, England has zero influence on whatever topics Scotland has devolved (which seems quite a lot after the independence vote)....... Sound fair? Dont think so.

If the SNP do run with Labour, I dont think Scotland will be part of the Union come 2020 and nor should you be, you are a socialist country. You arent like England, particularly the south. In fact, if Scotland got independence I'd prefer it if we gave Scotland Northern England. They can have Labour/SNP Government and Mid-Southern England can have Tory/UKIP.
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Hype en Ecosse
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#16
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#16
(Original post by billydisco)
Scotland has 59/650 influence on ALL English matters, England has zero influence on whatever topics Scotland has devolved (which seems quite a lot after the independence vote)....... Sound fair? Dont think so.
That's a bit of a queer figure to pull out when you can similarly argue that 491 non-Scottish MPs have a say on non-devolved Scottish issues, which still includes a lot of important things. I'm not even arguing with you about the West Lothian question - the idea that Scotland has more influence on England than vice versa is just ludicrous. This was what the entirety of the referendum was about.
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billydisco
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#17
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#17
(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
That's a bit of a queer figure to pull out when you can similarly argue that 491 non-Scottish MPs have a say on non-devolved Scottish issues, which still includes a lot of important things. I'm not even arguing with you about the West Lothian question - the idea that Scotland has more influence on England than vice versa is just ludicrous. This was what the entirety of the referendum was about.
0 < 59/650
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Swanbow
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#18
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#18
(Original post by billydisco)
Why should the SCOTTISH national party have a say on English matters, when English MPs have no say on Socttish matters?
Ahh, the West Lothian question.

Lets say we get English votes for English MPs. Why should predominately Labour and Lib Dems areas of England be subjected to eternal domination by the Conservative party? As a Lancastrian I feel I have more akin to the Scots, and would prefer having the SNP voting on legislation than the Tories.

The answer is for regional assemblies for the regions of England to finally clear up this mess. Give the English regions varying degrees of autonomy and curtail the powers of Westminster. That way we can stay united, but each chose our own way of doing things.
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billydisco
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#19
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#19
(Original post by Swanbow)
Ahh, the West Lothian question.

Lets say we get English votes for English MPs. Why should predominately Labour and Lib Dems areas of England be subjected to eternal domination by the Conservative party? As a Lancastrian I feel I have more akin to the Scots, and would prefer having the SNP voting on legislation than the Tories.

The answer is for regional assemblies for the regions of England to finally clear up this mess. Give the English regions varying degrees of autonomy and curtail the powers of Westminster. That way we can stay united, but each chose our own way of doing things.
No. Either ALL UK countries have their own parliament, or none of them do and all UK regions have assemblies. You don't tell the English they have to split in to regions whilst the other countries do not.
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The two eds
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#20
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#20
(Original post by Teaddict)
While the Scottish National Party are anti-British in the sense they oppose the British state, I think you would be taking it somewhat too far if you concluded they were anti-British or anti-English in terms of hating the people. I also find this notion that inviting the Scottish National Party into government is some how outrageous. Scotland is a part of the United Kingdom and therefore its representatives should be treated with the same respect we would give representatives from the other corners of the United Kingdom. If the Scottish National Party proves to be the largest party in Scotland, then to deny them privileges within parliament, including the right to form a government in Westminster, would be to treat Scotland as a second class citizen within the Union. As a Unionist, I am opposed to treating Scotland in this manner, even if I thoroughly disagree with the motivations and policies of the Scottish National Party.

You believe in fairness? Equality? Fair governing of a state and country right?

So do you agree with Labour's and SNPs stance on Scottish votes for Scottish laws but not English votes for English laws?

If you support this current system then you are undoubtedly anti-English.
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