How many people believe this?

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CycleofSpin
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#1
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#1
1. Self-preservation is the highest ideal
2. There is no right or wrong; the closest thing is right is what's good for you, wrong is what's bad for you; and you can make up these rules based on your journey through life, or the decisions made by legislators (moral relativism)
3. A ruling class needs to direct society because they are better equipped to do so.
4. Quality of life should be maintained though regulation of population numbers, birth control, euthanasia, social planning etc.
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HandmadeTurnip
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#2
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Not many, I imagine.
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Dilmurod Dilmu
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#3
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A bunch of socially awkward right wingers.
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Farm_Ecology
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#4
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(Original post by CycleofSpin)
1. Self-preservation is the highest ideal.
Not in the slightest. Weighted preservation of all life should be the highest ideal.

(Original post by CycleofSpin)
2. There is no right or wrong; the closest thing is right is what's good for you, wrong is what's bad for you; and you can make up these rules based on your journey through life, or the decisions made by legislators (moral relativism).
Agree.

(Original post by CycleofSpin)
3. A ruling class needs to direct society because they are better equipped to do so..
Disagree. Society is smarter than you think, and can self-regulate given the proper enviroment.

(Original post by CycleofSpin)
4. Quality of life should be maintained though regulation of population numbers, birth control, euthanasia, social planning etc.
Unnecessary. Regulating population numbers will not increase quality of life. Investing in technology is the key.
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Libtardian
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(Original post by Dilmurod Dilmu)
A bunch of socially awkward right wingers.
Only #1 is right-wing compatible.
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CycleofSpin
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#6
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(Original post by Farm_Ecology)
Not in the slightest. Weighted preservation of all life should be the highest ideal.



Agree.



Disagree. Society is smarter than you think, and can self-regulate given the proper enviroment.



Unnecessary. Regulating population numbers will not increase quality of life. Investing in technology is the key.
Why would you agree with moral relativism? Aren't rights and wrongs absolute, that you should not murder, harm, steal or coerce?

Isn't moral relativism or "there is no right or wrong" saying that you can do one or more of these things if it suits you and you can find a way to justify it?


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Libtardian
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(Original post by CycleofSpin)
Why would you agree with moral relativism? Aren't rights and wrongs absolute, that you should not murder, harm, steal or coerce?

Isn't moral relativism or "there is no right or wrong" saying that you can do one or more of these things if it suits you and you can find a way to justify it?


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The only thing that dictates reality is force, anything else is abstract theory.
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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by CycleofSpin)
Why would you agree with moral relativism? Aren't rights and wrongs absolute, that you should not murder, harm, steal or coerce?
No, where would that authority come from?

In realistic terms, there is no wrong and right, Morals are an opinion on the way things should be. They are just that, an opinion.

(Original post by CycleofSpin)
Isn't moral relativism or "there is no right or wrong" saying that you can do one or more of these things if it suits you and you can find a way to justify it?
You can, and people do. That doesn't mean that I adopt a stance of "let people do what they want" though. I have my opinions on how I think people should act, with a general goal in mind, and I think everyone else should conform to that.
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CycleofSpin
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#9
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(Original post by otester)
The only thing that dictates reality is force, anything else is abstract theory.
Do you not think that there are things that are intrinsically right and wrong according to tradition, the wisdom of the ages, God's law, natural law etc. whatever you want to call it like murder and theft is wrong?

Aren't these absolute and independent of what legislators who hire people with guns think?


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CycleofSpin
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(Original post by Farm_Ecology)
No, where would that authority come from?

In realistic terms, there is no wrong and right, Morals are an opinion on the way things should be. They are just that, an opinion.



You can, and people do. That doesn't mean that I adopt a stance of "let people do what they want" though. I have my opinions on how I think people should act, with a general goal in mind, and I think everyone else should conform to that.
See my post above.

So you believe that we are just free floating molecules that accepted by chance and came out of a swamp somewhere and that there is no right or wrong except for rules set by rulers who are the moral authority?

So does that make you a slave who carries out their actions according to rules set out of fear of what the rules employee's might do to you if you break the rules. I.e. You follow orders.



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Maradiah
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#11
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(Original post by CycleofSpin)
1. Self-preservation is the highest ideal
Many people believe this,its the idea of survival of the fittest

2. There is no right or wrong; the closest thing is right is what's good for you, wrong is what's bad for you; and you can make up these rules based on your journey through life, or the decisions made by legislators (moral relativism)
I highly doubt most people subscribe to this :lolwut:

3. A ruling class needs to direct society because they are better equipped to do so.
Even less people would believe this :toofunny:

4. Quality of life should be maintained though regulation of population numbers, birth control, euthanasia, social planning etc.
Meh, some of those are acceptable, others aren't :dontknow:
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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by CycleofSpin)
Do you not think that there are things that are intrinsically right and wrong according to tradition, the wisdom of the ages, God's law, natural law etc. whatever you want to call it like murder and theft is wrong?

Aren't these absolute and independent of what legislators who hire people with guns think?
No. What authority do any of those have to make absolute moral statements?

(Original post by CycleofSpin)
So you believe that we are just free floating molecules that accepted by chance and came out of a swamp somewhere and that there is no right or wrong except for rules set by rulers who are the moral authority?
Right and wrong is purely a personal opinion.

(Original post by CycleofSpin)
So does that make you a slave who carries out their actions according to rules set out of fear of what the rules employee's might do to you if you break the rules. I.e. You follow orders.
I'm not sure what you mean by this?
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CycleofSpin
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#13
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(Original post by Farm_Ecology)
I'm not sure what you mean by this?
Is your sense of what is moral or not based on a utilitarian sense of what fine, penalty or punishment the state will give you for certain actions?

If so isn't that a child like state of being (that most of humanity is in) almost like being a clueless person acting under the direction of someone holding a stick or threatening to take away your pocket money.




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Rainbow Student
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#14
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I only agree with #2
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Farm_Ecology
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#15
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(Original post by CycleofSpin)
Is your sense of what is moral or not based on a utilitarian sense of what fine, penalty or punishment the state will give you for certain actions?
No. Morality is an opinion based on emotions. My personal view is that a moral action is one that maximizes the benefit with the lowest pain. But is by no means absolute.
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CycleofSpin
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#16
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(Original post by Farm_Ecology)
No. Morality is an opinion based on emotions. My personal view is that a moral action is one that maximizes the benefit with the lowest pain. But is by no means absolute.
Im afraid your wrong what is benefit and pain and the ratio of all those things is arbitrary. Stalin, Hitler, George Bush could all could all argue that they started various actions to maximise benefit "for the common good" and someone else could argue that their actions were evil and caused more harm than good.

Freemasonry quote:



"In order to speak the "Lost Word," a human being must work upon themselves in order to achieve a state of EQUILIBRIUM, or Balance, between the Left and Right brain hemispheres. In such a state of Consciousness, the being has come to know the Self, as well as the working operations of Natural Law, and in doing so, has come to understand the objective difference between Right and Wrong, or, as they are referred to in Freemasonry, "Light" and "Darkness," respectively. "





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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by CycleofSpin)
Im afraid your wrong what is benefit and pain and the ratio of all those things is arbitrary.
Not arbitrary, but certainly subjective.

S
(Original post by CycleofSpin)
talin, Hitler, George Bush could all could all argue that they started various actions to maximise benefit "for the common good" and someone else could argue that their actions were evil and caused more harm than good.
Without a doubt. The argument would be about whether they achieved their aims, and whether the benefit was maximized. But of course, what the intended benefit is, is very much subjective.


What is your opinion on morality? You seem to feel that it's absolute? Where does this absolute morality come from?
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CycleofSpin
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(Original post by Farm_Ecology)
Not arbitrary, but certainly subjective.

S

Without a doubt. The argument would be about whether they achieved their aims, and whether the benefit was maximized. But of course, what the intended benefit is, is very much subjective.


What is your opinion on morality? You seem to feel that it's absolute? Where does this absolute morality come from?
The definition of good and evil comes from darkness and light which I grant you are relative as each thinks it is light. These come from forces that are above and beyond our realm which we are all conscious of. Modern theories and opinions state that these higher powers do not exist but modern theories are wrong. At least on a subconscious level all people know this.

The 4 points in my OP are versions of the 4 tenets of satanism. One of the key desires of satanists (it doesn't matter what ones beliefs are - the people who call themselves satanists) is a desire that the people outside of their circles should believe that morality is relative.






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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by CycleofSpin)
The definition of good and evil comes from darkness and light which I grant you are relative as each thinks it is light. These come from forces that are above and beyond our realm which we are all conscious of. Modern theories and opinions state that these higher powers do not exist but modern theories are wrong. At least on a subconscious level all people know this.
I'm assuming you have some kind of evidence for this?
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CycleofSpin
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#20
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#20
(Original post by Farm_Ecology)
I'm assuming you have some kind of evidence for this?
It's difficult/ impossible to directly prove this empirically especially over an Internet forum but the aggregated testimonies of people who became allied with either darkness or light exists:
















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