Equality and its enforcement cannot be justifed.

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Falcatas
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Why is the left obsessed with equality?

Screw equality.

Some people are born smarter and stronger than others. That is just nature.
Attempts to enforce equality require violence or at least the threat of violence. You point guns at the rich and able to force them to give to the poor. The ends does not justify the means.

How can one who believes in 'equality' endorse this?? How come it is permissible to initiate violence against some people yet not others? Surely this contradicts the notion of equality.
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frostyy
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because being biologically stupid doesn't justify struggle. the responsibility of the smart is to ameliorate those who aren't, so that the society that they both have to live in can be better as a whole. otherwise, they have no excuse to complain about it being imperfect - if they do, they clearly aren't that smart themselves after all.
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by Falcatas)
Why is the left obsessed with equality?

Screw equality.

Some people are born smarter and stronger than others. That is just nature.
Attempts to enforce equality require violence or at least the threat of violence. You point guns at the rich and able to force them to give to the poor. The ends does not justify the means.

How can one who believes in 'equality' endorse this?? How come it is permissible to initiate violence against some people yet not others? Surely this contradicts the notion of equality.

Its truly remarkable that you have grown up to be old enough to write this utterly nonsensical post.
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Protégé
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It's idiotic when employers employ ethnic minorities over the majority just because they're different, it needs to be stopped.
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Falcatas
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(Original post by Protégé)
It's idiotic when employers employ ethnic minorities over the majority just because they're different, it needs to be stopped.
I agree it is idiotic but it doesn't have to be stopped.

If someone wants to only hire black people because they like the look of them (or because they aren't white) then so be it.

Of course I personal would despise any business that had such an racist employment policy.

(Original post by cole-slaw)
Its truly remarkable that you have grown up to be old enough to write this utterly nonsensical post.
It is unremarkable that you resort to insults because you can't come up with any coherent arguments against a position.
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by Falcatas)
I agree it is idiotic but it doesn't have to be stopped.

If someone wants to only hire black people because they like the look of them (or because they aren't white) then so be it.

Of course I personal would despise any business that had such an racist employment policy.



It is unremarkable that you resort to insults because you can't come up with any coherent arguments against a position.
You don't have a position, your post doesn't even make any sense. Its just gibberish.
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Maradiah
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We must strive for equality as a race.
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CycleofSpin
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(Original post by Falcatas)
Why is the left obsessed with equality?

Screw equality.

Some people are born smarter and stronger than others. That is just nature.
Attempts to enforce equality require violence or at least the threat of violence. You point guns at the rich and able to force them to give to the poor. The ends does not justify the means.

How can one who believes in 'equality' endorse this?? How come it is permissible to initiate violence against some people yet not others? Surely this contradicts the notion of equality.
For years we have been trying to tell you all and now you are starting to get it. The radical socialists want to destroy reality one brick at a time.

They create these straw men like constant and ever increasing equality battles a reason to destroy reality.


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Comus
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Equality is a necessary component of a society with the maximum possible freedom - a unequal, hierarchical society offers freedom to the subjugators at the expense of the freedom of the subjugated.
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The_Mighty_Bush
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(Original post by Comus)
Equality is a necessary component of a society with the maximum possible freedom - a unequal, hierarchical society offers freedom to the subjugators at the expense of the freedom of the subjugated.
The enforcement of equality, whether or results or opportunity, inevitably leads to totalitarianism.
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Comus
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(Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
The enforcement of equality, whether or results or opportunity, inevitably leads to totalitarianism.
You seem to be assuming that equality is necessarily imposed from the top-down rather than the result of a bottom-up emancipatory struggle...
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The_Mighty_Bush
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(Original post by Comus)
You seem to be assuming that equality is necessarily imposed from the top-down rather than the result of a bottom-up emancipatory struggle...
No, I'm not but the enforcement of any kind of near or total equality is only possible through political power and violence.

To keep equality going also requires constant political or violent intervention to stop human beings engaging in the exchange of value with each other.
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TurboCretin
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Not everyone who is smart is strong, and not everyone who is stupid is worthless.

By helping people overcome their weaknesses, we can benefit from their strengths. Stephen Hawking and bin men would both find it difficult to survive in a less equal society, but we benefit greatly from them both under the right conditions.
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Falcatas
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(Original post by Comus)
Equality is a necessary component of a society with the maximum possible freedom - a unequal, hierarchical society offers freedom to the subjugators at the expense of the freedom of the subjugated.
How are you defining subjugation? The rich should be left alone if they have not stolen, killed or harmed anyone to get to where they are.

Those who are rich but have become so from violence should not be left alone and should be treated like the criminals they are.
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Comus
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(Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
No, I'm not but the enforcement of any kind of near or total equality is only possible through political power and violence.
I disagree - the creation of equality requires that the power structures which uphold existing inequality are dismantled, I don't agree it necessarily requires the creation of new power structures. As Bakunin put it: "Do you want to make it impossible for anyone to oppress his fellow man? Then make sure that no-one shall possess power."
(Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
To keep equality going also requires constant political or violent intervention to stop human beings engaging in the exchange of value with each other.
The mere exchange of value does not necessarily create class based inequality (which is what I think you're getting at) - for instance look at free-market anti-capitalist ideologies, such as Proudhonian Mutualism or market socialism - on the other hand hegemonic control of the means of production in the hands of a small minority, the extraction of surplus value from workers and the subsequent capital accumulation, generally does.

(Original post by Falcatas)
How are you defining subjugation? The rich should be left alone if they have not stolen, killed or harmed anyone to get to where they are.
You mean like stealing the value of someone else's labour? I do not begrudge anyone the products of their own labour but wage-slavery is a form of subjugation - that in a capitalist society, one has some choice in their subjugator is irrelevant as the general principles of the economic relationship remain the same.

As for my general definition of 'subjugation'? A situation where there is a hierarchical relationship which cannot justify itself.
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Swanbow
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The problem is we have a system that allows the consolidation of wealth in the hands of the few, at the expense of everyone else.

Efforts towards equality include raising the national minimum wage, promoting the living wage and progressive taxation. But those measures by themselves are not enough. Businesses need to value their employees as an asset, to be kept and looked after, rather than than a commodity to be bought at the lowest price. We live in an economy dominated by the service sector. If those at the bottom and middle have more money, it means more money going towards services. That means more profit for those businesses. If the elite want to ensure their long term survival they need to recognise that those on low and middle incomes need to have higher wages.
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lucaf
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Nobody denies that people are not all as smart and as strong as each other, so saying that is just being blatantly disingenuous. Equality means giving everybody the same rights and opportunities, it does not mean expecting everybody to have the same outcome.
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Baron of Sealand
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Equality doesn't go against people who were born 'smarter' or 'stronger', so I think your problem is that you have either misunderstood the whole thing or you're just twisting it to get more attention for yourself.
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lucaf
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(Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
No, I'm not but the enforcement of any kind of near or total equality is only possible through political power and violence.

To keep equality going also requires constant political or violent intervention to stop human beings engaging in the exchange of value with each other.
Unequal power systems also require use of political power and violence to maintain themselves, so may as well use them in a way that is fairer.
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Falcatas
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(Original post by Comus)

You mean like stealing the value of someone else's labour? I do not begrudge anyone the products of their own labour but wage-slavery is a form of subjugation - that in a capitalist society, one has some choice in their subjugator is irrelevant as the general principles of the economic relationship remain the same.

As for my general definition of 'subjugation'? A situation where there is a hierarchical relationship which cannot justify itself.
Well for one labour doesn't have any value in itself. Value is only ascribed by individuals who have their own subjective preferences. If labour had value that surely a lawn cut by a pair of scissors would be worth more than one cut by a lawnmower.

People do own their own labour but why should they be stopped in selling it? Who are you to say they are being subjugated/exploited?
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