Why do immigrants regard England as a state rather than as an inheritance? Watch

gladders
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
Roast beef didn't come from France, and I'm sorry but they aren't English, they're British
Never claimed that. I said the tradition of Sunday lunch did.

There are tons of English and Anglo-Saxon surnames, what are you talking about?
You lol'd, as if my request was absurd, implying there were none. So throw a surname at me!
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Babada Boopy
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#42
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(Original post by gladders)
I didn't claim any such thing, but there's a view that, in proportion to population size at various times, the immigration waves were proportionally just as large. As an example, fifty thousand French Huguenots emigrated from France to England in 1708-9.
Wow, your whole argument is based on a total of 50,000 Huguenot refugees
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gladders
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#43
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(Original post by G8D)
Certainly.
Well they don't. The history of the last two hundreds years of European warfare should make that blindlingly obvious. Western Europe has a closer parallel, but even then, it's not perfect.
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gladders
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
Wow, your whole argument is based on a total of 50,000 Huguenot refugees
No, it was an example. And that's just England. I've not quoted figures for Wales or Scotland. And people back then got the wind up about these dirty foreigners taking over their country just as much as some people do now.
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Babada Boopy
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#45
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#45
(Original post by gladders)
Never claimed that. I said the tradition of Sunday lunch did.



You lol'd, as if my request was absurd, implying there were none. So throw a surname at me!
Sunday dinner does not come France

Shakespeare is an exampel of an English surname
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Babada Boopy
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#46
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#46
(Original post by gladders)
No, it was an example. And that's just England. I've not quoted figures for Wales or Scotland. And people back then got the wind up about these dirty foreigners taking over their country just as much as some people do now.
It was literally one year of refugees, not an open border policy of half a million immigrants every year, stop comparing the two situations
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gladders
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
Sunday dinner does not come France
Yeah it does. From the Normans, to be precise.

Shakespeare is an exampel of an English surname
Ah yes, and the first recorded person to have that name was William Sakespere, which was dated 1248, in the Old Charters of Gloucestershire, during the reign of King Henry III, known as "The Frenchman", 1216 - 1272.
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gladders
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
It was literally one year of refugees, not an open border policy of half a million immigrants every year, stop comparing the two situations
Again, you're assuming it was in isolation. There was tons of other immigration taking place. The Dutch swamped East Anglia and practically dominated the trading system there. Jews began returning to this country from the 1650s. Africans littered the docklands of London. Poles and Lithuanians settled here, too.

The East India Company relied heavily on Indians to crew its ships and they moved to London in droves. They gave us shampoo, curry, and pyjamas - nice one!
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Babada Boopy
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#49
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#49
(Original post by gladders)
Yeah it does. From the Normans, to be precise.



Ah yes, and the first recorded person to have that name was William Sakespere, which was dated 1248, in the Old Charters of Gloucestershire, during the reign of King Henry 111, known as "The Frenchman", 1216 - 1272.
lol, it does not come from the Normans

Are you denying its an English name?
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Babada Boopy
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#50
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#50
(Original post by gladders)
Again, you're assuming it was in isolation. There was tons of other immigration taking place. The Dutch swamped East Anglia and practically dominated the trading system there. Jews began returning to this country from the 1650s. Africans littered the docklands of London. Poles and Lithuanians settled here, too.

The East India Company relied heavily on Indians to crew its ships and they moved to London in droves. They gave us shampoo, curry, and pyjamas - nice one!
You're not giving me any numbers, I know there have been other immgrants into the UK, the point is they all intermixed with the natives and were absorbed in, you're arguing semantics
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gladders
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
lol, it does not come from the Normans
Wow, damning retort there. My dad's tougher than your dad.

Are you denying its an English name?
It appears that a Frenchman adopted the surname in the mid-1200s for tax purposes.
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Babada Boopy
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#52
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#52
(Original post by gladders)
Wow, damning retort there. My dad's tougher than your dad.
Do you have proof it comes from Normandy?

(Original post by gladders)
9It appears that a Frenchman adopted the surname in the mid-1200s for tax purposes.
Yeah thats literally what the English language is, French people trying to speak Anglo-Saxon
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gladders
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
You're not giving me any numbers, I know there have been other immgrants into the UK, the point is they all intermixed with the natives and were absorbed in, you're arguing semantics
Clearly, it wasn't simply that they were 'absorbed in'. They fundamentally changed English way of life. A lot of what people assume has always been 'English' is actually dependent upon waves of immigrants to teach us or inspire us with new habits. The Huguenots were highly industrious, hard-working people, and founded a powerful silk weaving industry here that sparked a new wave of empire building. The Jews set up the early English financial system. The Dutch established advanced trade networks between England and the Low Countries, allowing us to eventually lick them in the Navigation Wars. The Indians manned our Company ships, strengthening our competitiveness abroad, and brought in a new concept of personal hygeine, sleeping comfort, and good food.

The Italians gave us ice cream and ice cream vans.
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gladders
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
Do you have proof it comes from Normandy?
Not online, but I recommend a book from a chap called Robert Pinder, called 'Bloody Foreigners'.

Yeah thats literally what the English language is, French people trying to speak Anglo-Saxon
But as we have now established, it doesn't necessarily mean the person with that surname is entirely 'ethnically' English.
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Iwouldliketoknow
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#55
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His could you tell though. I mean what if someone looks white and has an english name but up to 3 generationsgenerations ago they were Chinese or Iranian. When does one cancel out the other. Upon first appearance they look English and sound English but if you were to look further that wouldn't be the case
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Iwouldliketoknow
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
You're not giving me any numbers, I know there have been other immgrants into the UK, the point is they all intermixed with the natives and were absorbed in, you're arguing semantics
So once they absorbed in that makes them English rather than British? Surely that crossing back on the argument that English ethnically means white and Anglo Saxon
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Babada Boopy
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#57
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#57
(Original post by gladders)
Clearly, it wasn't simply that they were 'absorbed in'. They fundamentally changed English way of life. A lot of what people assume has always been 'English' is actually dependent upon waves of immigrants to teach us or inspire us with new habits. The Huguenots were highly industrious, hard-working people, and founded a powerful silk weaving industry here that sparked a new wave of empire building. The Jews set up the early English financial system. The Dutch established advanced trade networks between England and the Low Countries, allowing us to eventually lick them in the Navigation Wars. The Indians manned our Company ships, strengthening our competitiveness abroad, and brought in a new concept of personal hygeine, sleeping comfort, and good food.

The Italians gave us ice cream and ice cream vans.
Industiralisation is just a generally Protestant thing but anyway, nobody is arguing immigrants haven't effected this country, we're talking about the English ethnicity which is.... white.
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Babada Boopy
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#58
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#58
(Original post by Iwouldliketoknow)
So once they absorbed in that makes them English rather than British? Surely that crossing back on the argument that English ethnically means white and Anglo Saxon
The majority of English people are the same genetically, the immigrant from the past were small controlled groups that were absorbed in, many will have some ancestry from France or elsewhere but most of their ancestry you'll find is native
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gladders
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#59
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#59
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
Industiralisation is just a generally Protestant thing but anyway,
That is a highly debatable claim, and not one that holds a consensus among historians.

nobody is arguing immigrants haven't effected this country, we're talking about the English ethnicity which is.... white.
Why should I give a flying toss what someone's skin colour is? Why does that matter?
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gladders
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#60
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#60
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
The majority of English people are the same genetically, the immigrant from the past were small controlled groups that were absorbed in, many will have some ancestry from France or elsewhere but the most of their ancestry you'll find is native
You're vastly understating the degree of immigration and vastly overstating how much control the state had back then. The modern state's border controls are a relatively recent thing.

And it didn't stop all undesirable immigration. For much of the 19th century, the main complaint was about Irish immigrants, who were considered the scum of the earth, but there were also part of the United Kingdom.
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