Why do immigrants regard England as a state rather than as an inheritance? Watch

Babada Boopy
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#61
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#61
(Original post by gladders)
Why should I give a flying toss what someone's skin colour is? Why does that matter?
You shouldn't personally, but if someone is for example black that means they have very little, if any English ancestry in them so calling them English ethnically is misleading
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BasicMistake
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#62
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What we now call 'English' are people who are descended from the Anglo-Saxons. But it can be argued that they were technically immigrants from Denmark and Germany who came here in the 5th Century.
I accept that current immigrants cannot be considered English ethnic people but in a few hundred years (if humanity lasts that long) their children would be.
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gladders
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
You shouldn't personally, but if someone is for example black that means they have very little, if any English ancestry in them so calling them English ethnically is misleading
Why should I care if they have English ethnicity?
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Babada Boopy
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#64
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(Original post by gladders)
You're vastly understating the degree of immigration and vastly overstating how much control the state had back then. The modern state's border controls are a relatively recent thing.

And it didn't stop all undesirable immigration. For much of the 19th century, the main complaint was about Irish immigrants, who were considered the scum of the earth, but there were also part of the United Kingdom.
If over 10,000 years the most we've had in this country is a few bursts of European immigrants in the tens of thousands I don't think it is understating
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Ahem-
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#65
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#65
Rather be Asian than English tbh
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Babada Boopy
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#66
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#66
(Original post by gladders)
Why should I care if they have English ethnicity?
Well you're the one who got into a debate over whether English people are white or not (they are) so I assume you care for some reason
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gladders
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
If over 10,000 years the most we've had in this country is a few bursts of European immigrants in the tens of thousands I don't think it is understating
Up until the 18th century the population of this country was tiny so proportionally it mattered a great deal.

And ten thousand years? Try 1,500 - the English themselves are immigrants who stole the land from the Welsh! Time we gave it back.
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gladders
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#68
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(Original post by Babada Boopy)
Well you're the one who got into a debate over whether English people are white or not (they are) so I assume you care for some reason
I care that someone has made an arbitrary and pointless declaration that English people can only be white. I'd rather be inclusive and allow anyone to be English if they live here and get citizenship. I care not for ethnicity.
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Babada Boopy
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#69
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#69
(Original post by gladders)
Up until the 18th century the population of this country was tiny so proportionally it mattered a great deal.

And ten thousand years? Try 1,500 - the English themselves are immigrants who stole the land from the Welsh! Time we gave it back.
I know that better than anyone, I am Welsh

(Original post by gladders)
I care that someone has made an arbitrary and pointless declaration that English people can only be white. I'd rather be inclusive and allow anyone to be English if they live here and get citizenship. I care not for ethnicity.
Anybody can be British, the discussion is on the English ethnicity which is white, thats the reality of it.
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Iwouldliketoknow
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#70
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(Original post by Babada Boopy)
You shouldn't personally, but if someone is for example black that means they have very little, if any English ancestry in them so calling them English ethnically is misleading
But that black person could have a mixed race mother and then paternal grand parents could be mixed. This means up to 4 generations ago they were ethnically english
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Babada Boopy
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Iwouldliketoknow)
But that black person could have a mixed race mother and then paterbal
what?
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gladders
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
I know that better than anyone, I am Welsh
And as far as I can trace my family history back we're all Anglo-Saxons, so we're mortal enemies

Anybody can be British, the discussion is on the English ethnicity which is white, thats the reality of it.
I just don't care about ethnicity. It's a defunct concept from the age of tribes and forest gods. We can move on now.
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Iwouldliketoknow
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#73
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(Original post by Babada Boopy)
I know that better than anyone, I am Welsh


Anybody can be British, the discussion is on the English ethnicity which is white, thats the reality of it.
but to be white could be iranian/ saudi arabian or french- does it mean english= white= all over the world all that are white are english
I think not
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Babada Boopy
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#74
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#74
(Original post by gladders)
I just don't care about ethnicity. It's a defunct concept from the age of tribes and forest gods. We can move on now.
I agree in legal terms it doesn't matter, but socially it will never disappear
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gladders
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#75
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#75
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
I agree in legal terms it doesn't matter, but socially it will never disappear
Oh I think it will, and is. As far as I'm concerned, someone who looks Thai on the outside is as English as I am if they live and work in England.
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Babada Boopy
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Iwouldliketoknow)
but to be white could be iranian/ saudi arabian or french- does it mean english= white= all over the world all that are white are english
I think not
Iranians consider themselves Persians and Saudis Arabic, I don't think they consider themselves white, not white in the sense of English at least
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thesabbath
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#77
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The 1951 Census recorded 156,827 UK residents born in the New Commonwealth (NC). Most of them would have been white persons of British origin. The non-white ethnic minority population at that time is unlikely to have been much greater than 20,000, almost all born overseas (Coleman and Salt, 1992). - http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mmaRpUa1oSoC&pg=PA505


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thesabbath
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#78
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(Original post by gladders)
Oh I think it will, and is. As far as I'm concerned, someone who looks Thai on the outside is as English as I am if they live and work in England.
Presumably then you would expect Thais to view an Englishman working in Thailand as a Thai? I think we both know this is not going to be the case.
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gladders
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#79
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#79
(Original post by Babada Boopy)
Iranians consider themselves Persians and Saudis Arabic, I don't think they consider themselves white, not white in the sense of English at least
You can speak for every single one of them, can you?
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gladders
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#80
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#80
(Original post by thesabbath)
Presumably then you would expect Thais to view an Englishman working in Thailand as a Thai? I think we both know this is not going to be the case.
I can't speak for the Thai people, but if they want to feel that way, I disagree with them but can't force them. But I can argue with my fellow countrymen - of whatever colour they may be - to avoid having such a backwards-looking view of humanity.
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