1945 Looks Progressive

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whorace
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#1
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#1
http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man.htm

Reading those manifestos I can't help but think our current politicians are utter charlatans, even old boy Winston is supporting social insurance and the NHS.
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Davij038
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#2
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That's a really cool link cheers!
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L i b
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#3
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(Original post by whorace)
http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man.htm

Reading those manifestos I can't help but think our current politicians are utter charlatans, even old boy Winston is supporting social insurance and the NHS.
Yeah, all the mainstream parties support national insurance and the NHS, as well as a welfare state far larger and broader than anything seen in those years. In the 1950s, welfare spending was about 3% of our GDP. Today, it is more than double that. The expansion in health spending is even greater.

Let's not forget this was the era where homosexuals were imprisoned or, perhaps worse, chemically castrated - and many other things we'd look upon as horrific today.
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whorace
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#4
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(Original post by L i b)
Yeah, all the mainstream parties support national insurance and the NHS, as well as a welfare state far larger and broader than anything seen in those years. In the 1950s, welfare spending was about 3% of our GDP. Today, it is more than double that. The expansion in health spending is even greater.

Let's not forget this was the era where homosexuals were imprisoned or, perhaps worse, chemically castrated - and many other things we'd look upon as horrific today.
Yeah there's still a lot of problems there. It's interesting how it would have went if the Liberals or Conservatives had of won, the manifestos are really quite similar but deviate in little ways. The Liberals even talk about introducing a more proportional system.
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gladders
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#5
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Also, those manifestoes in 1945 were way shorter and way vaguer. People criticise the parties' spending plans today as being uncosted and unclear - good grief!
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whorace
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#6
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(Original post by gladders)
Also, those manifestoes in 1945 were way shorter and way vaguer. People criticise the parties' spending plans today as being uncosted and unclear - good grief!
Haha, I think part of that was admission of the impracticality of manifestos. They are little more than addresses to the electorate, and any attempt to shove fixed rules at people is almost un-British in our culture of common law.
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gladders
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#7
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(Original post by whorace)
Haha, I think part of that was admission of the impracticality of manifestos. They are little more than addresses to the electorate, and any attempt to shove fixed rules at people is almost un-British in our culture of common law.
That's why I find proposals that manifestoes should be treated like legally-binding agreements to be amusing.
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ChaoticButterfly
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#8
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(Original post by whorace)
http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man.htm

Reading those manifestos I can't help but think our current politicians are utter charlatans, even old boy Winston is supporting social insurance and the NHS.
Here is a quote from Disraeli's government in the 1870s

"“I take it as a starting point,” Cross said, “that it is not the duty of the government to provide any class of citizens with any of the necessaries of life.”

Sound like a ****ing lefty by todays standards.
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Rakas21
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#9
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Here is a quote from Disraeli's government in the 1870s

"“I take it as a starting point,” Cross said, “that it is not the duty of the government to provide any class of citizens with any of the necessaries of life.”

Sound like a ****ing lefty by todays standards.
One forgets that necessities back then were food, water and a job in the work houses for the children.
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Fullofsurprises
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#10
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(Original post by Rakas21)
One forgets that necessities back then were food, water and a job in the work houses for the children.
Yes, so long as you realise that the food was adulterated, the water could kill you any time and the job in the workhouse was likely to be cut short by being worked to death.

Disraeli also by the way opposed building proper sewerage systems into London and other major cities.
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scrotgrot
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#11
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Yes, so long as you realise that the food was adulterated, the water could kill you any time and the job in the workhouse was likely to be cut short by being worked to death.

Disraeli also by the way opposed building proper sewerage systems into London and other major cities.
Shh, unfettered capitalism never killed or harmed anyone!
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ChaoticButterfly
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Disraeli also by the way opposed building proper sewerage systems into London and other major cities.
The Romans mastered this 100s of years ago :sigh:
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The_Mighty_Bush
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#13
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#13
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Here is a quote from Disraeli's government in the 1870s

"“I take it as a starting point,” Cross said, “that it is not the duty of the government to provide any class of citizens with any of the necessaries of life.”

Sound like a ****ing lefty by todays standards.
Are you joking? He's saying it isn't the duty of the government.

(Original post by scrotgrot)
Shh, unfettered capitalism never killed or harmed anyone!
I'd wager that it was far preferable to 90% of the population trying to grind out a living in subsistence agriculture and dying before they were 35.
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scrotgrot
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#14
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#14
(Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
Are you joking? He's saying it isn't the duty of the government.


I'd wager that it was far preferable to 90% of the population trying to grind out a living in subsistence agriculture and dying before they were 35.
Sure, there isn't really any alternative, when the stars align for industrialisation you just have to strap yourself in for the ride. Other countries had communism when they were industrialising and that wasn't exactly a clean record either.

Mind you, people never actually died before they were 35, it's just that lots of babies and children died. It's also worth noting that agricultural labourers worked far fewer hours a year than we do today, and had long holidays. Victorian industrial workers, before trade unionism and the labour movement emerged to reduce their burden, made by far the most prodigious work effort in the history of mankind, working at least twice as many hours as a medieval agricultural labourer, and in more dangerous conditions to boot. (Not that they had anything to show for it, of course: the industrialists pocketed the wealth their labour created.)
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The_Mighty_Bush
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#15
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#15
(Original post by scrotgrot)
Mind you, people never actually died before they were 35, it's just that lots of babies and children died. It's also worth noting that agricultural labourers worked far fewer hours a year than we do today, and had long holidays. Victorian industrial workers, before trade unionism and the labour movement emerged to reduce their burden, made by far the most prodigious work effort in the history of mankind, working at least twice as many hours as a medieval agricultural labourer, and in more dangerous conditions to boot. (Not that they had anything to show for it, of course: the industrialists pocketed the wealth their labour created.)
I don't know the figures on working hours though I am sceptical of the idea that they worked far fewer hours than we did today when the average today is only 36.

Real wages of working class people doubled between 1819 and 1851.

Life expectancy rose from 35 to 40 between 1781 and 1851.
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