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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    i have an aunt and uncle who are american and when discussing whether to go to war they replied "we have to put our trust in the people with power and support them all the way" and they are both well-educated people. i found it shocking how they could have such a naive viewpoint for two such intelligent people, i think that when you start putting blind faith in the people that rule over you there is a real cause for concern as that is how dictatoships are born!

    i lost all my respect for america after the invasion of Iraq. whenever anyone used the oil argument i would dismiss it as anti american propoganda and argue that Bush would not do something so selfish. my main arugment was that a trust fund would be set up into which all proceeds from iraqi oil would be put in and the funds used to help rebuild Iraq (the very words used by Tony Blair). several months later and this fund has failed to materialise just like the so called weapons of mass destruction. the countdown to doomsday has begun...
    That's exactly the thinking of Vienna! Blind faith in the 'establishment' and their laws - which are only for the good of us all. Sorry Vienna, I jut thought of you immediately I saw this post!
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Just to correct you, America has never used Nuclear weapons against another country. They used Atomic weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki which i think you're confusing.
    Nuclear weapons usually means any weapon working at the nuclear level ie splitting or colliding atoms.
    The atomic bomb included nuclear material. Hiroshima was enriched uranium, and nagasaki was plutonium based. (or vice versa)

    And if you're comment was pedantism, then yes, they used them against two cities, in Japan.
    Which makes Japan the only country to have suffered nuclear attack.
    Ironic really, the worlds biggest economy was responsible for the only nuclear attack...on the 2nd biggest economy.
    J
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    Unless any of you have access to a large amount of fairly secret military intelligence relating to our recent conflict, I would recommend you don't dictate whether or not we should have gone to war.

    We definately should have; all our reasons were correct.
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    off the war topic, common anti-american slang includes the phrases 'spam' or 'spam-fritter' or 'yank' or 'colonial rejects'
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    (Original post by Wzz)
    Unless any of you have access to a large amount of fairly secret military intelligence relating to our recent conflict, I would recommend you don't dictate whether or not we should have gone to war.

    We definately should have; all our reasons were correct.
    1)What info do you have that the rest of us don't?
    2)Iraq really wasn't "our conflict" was it?
    3)Besides isn't everyone entitled to their own oppinions?
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    Madeline Albright came to town today. There was a protest and candle lit vigil re: deaths of Iraqi kids due to sanctions. She had a lot of trouble trying to get into the building where she was due to speak, with the small group of protestors equipped with cream pies et al, also handing out propaganda abt George Bush coming to UK 19-21 November...
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    I love American people and have nothing against them in particular. But that stupid President of theirs...
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    (Original post by jediknight007)
    I love American people and have nothing against them in particular. But that stupid President of theirs...
    There's a lot I love about American(/Canadian) life & culture. The accent, the teenage lifestyle as (unrealistically I know) portrayed in Dawson's Creek, Saved by the Bell... the adult lifestyle and atmosphere of Ally McBeal, Spin City, Frasier, Friends...

    Jools (living in fantasy land)
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    "America has by far the most and America is the only country to have ever used them against another. "

    from last time i knew... the country for having the most Nuclear weapons... was at one time Russia with a staggering 137 Thousand!

    Plus.. its America's job to tell other people what to do :-P

    (Original post by byb3)
    I agree with most of your views, and I think a lot of others will do to. We are seen as America's friends, but the truth of the matter is that many of us can't stand to see George Bush and his Republican party wrecking their havoc on the world. What country will they invade next?

    As my dad mentioned, one of the major reasons the allies went into Iraq was because Saddam treated his people badly and they were liberating them. Of course thats crap, as America does what pleases America. They wanted the oil and they had to make an excuse up.

    I bet they don't invade Zimbabwe, mainly because what do they have that America needs?

    Regards,
    i tell ya the next country's in line are syria, than iran and than pakistan...

    you can see how bush is sayin, syria has the Weapons of Mass Destruction, i mean what the hell.. how was such WMD possible UN invading iraq everyother day and UN makes a dossier sayin he doesnt have anything no more. he has dismantled them, does this affect bush??? NO! he dont care less... when they were talking about going to war, the French used the veto, to go against the war.. what happened? where was UN than.. why was America not stopped...

    also when your under sanctions, isnt it thousand times harder to build something? especially under main stream media.

    basically, america they trying to build the huge oil line that they have been always taking about... how is bush linked to oil? think about it... whats his dad own..

    a time will come when "oil will be known as black gold" Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    ..already the wars are starting on the middle east, cos of the oil...

    please take a look at this site, for all your information on the U.S and its terrorist attacks, recently been hacked, i can understand why....

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

    (Original post by NeoPhyte)
    "America has by far the most and America is the only country to have ever used them against another. "

    from last time i knew... the country for having the most Nuclear weapons... was at one time Russia with a staggering 137 Thousand!

    Plus.. its America's job to tell other people what to do :-P
    why, what authority does America have, the same people once ruled by the British, now basically being ruled by Israel (jews).
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    (Original post by rachelina*)
    George Bush is an evil man, and I really don't understand how so many Americans could have supported the war. It was a complete oxymoron 'Enforced liberty'. What about the Iraqis who didn't want liberty? It's just Bush making up bull so that he can have the oil that he needs and wants. For crying out loud, the man was an alcoholic up until 40. I don't mean to be offensive of recovering alcholics but still, he never really did anything until he thought it would be a fun idea to copy Daddy. He got really bad marks at uni, he garbles his speeches all the time, and he didn't really win the election, it was just the screwed up ballots that helped him win.
    he is definately one dumb F****R. if you look at his speeches, he dont know what he is talkin about.

    here a few glimpses of his speeches: read a few, some are funny as hell..

    "I recently met with the finance minister of the Palestinian Authority, was very impressed by his grasp of finances."
    Washington, D.C., George W. Bush, May 29, 2003

    "You're free. And freedom is beautiful. And, you know, it'll take time to restore chaos and order..
    ..order out of chaos. But we will."
    G. W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2003

    "It is wonderful to be here at Harrison High. I'm honored to be in the presence of the principal, Donnie Griggers. I want to thank he and his staff -- (applause) -- he and his fine staff for putting up with the entourage." --Kennesaw, Georgia, 02.20.03

    "Now, we talked to Joan Hanover. She and her husband, George, were visiting with us. They are near retirement
    ..retiring..
    in the process of retiring, meaning they're very smart, active, capable people who are retirement age and are retiring."
    Alexandria, Va., Feb. 12, 2003.

    "The war on terror involves Saddam Hussein because of the nature of Saddam Hussein, the history of Saddam Hussein, and his willingness to terrorize himself."
    Grand Rapids, Mich., Jan. 29, 2003

    "Perhaps the biggest problem is that we have passed children from grade to grade, year after year, and those -- child hadn't learned the basics of reading and math."
    Washington, D.C., Jan. 8, 2003

    "One year ago today, the time for excuse-making has come to an end." -
    Washington, D.C., Jan. 8, 2003

    "I think the American people
    I hope the American
    I don't think, let me
    I hope the American people trust me."
    -Washington, D.C., Dec. 18, 2002

    The law I sign today directs new funds and new focus to the task of collecting vital intelligence on terrorist threats and on weapons of mass production." --George W. Bush, White House, Nov. 27, 2002

    By The Associated Press, Friday, October 24, 3:36 PM

    CRAWFORD, Texas (AP)--"President Bush called Sen. Paul Wellstone 'a plainspoken fellow' who did his best for Minnesota and the United States. 'I would like to express my deep condolences for the loss of the Senate,' Bush said shortly after hearing of Wellstone's death Friday. 'And also, I would like to express my condolences to the bereaved family.'"

    check this LOL!
    "There's an old...saying in Tennessee...I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says Fool me once...(3 second pause)... Shame on...(4 second pause)...Shame on you....(6 second pause)...Fool me...Can't get fooled again." --George W. Bush to Nashville, Tennessee audience, Sept. 17, 2002, MSNBC-TV --Politex, Sept. 17, 2002, 10 PM

    to hear that click this link: http://bushwatch.org/ourfearlessleader.mp3

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I just heard Bu$h in his Iowa speech about 'growing the economy' explaining how, if we give more tax money back to busnessmen, that allows them in his words: "to produce a 'gooder' service." He said this three times, so I am sure of what I just heard. I am sure he meant 'produce a "better" service.' Where the heck did he learn english? --Steve Marshall, Sept. 16, 2002
    Actually, Steve, Bush is slurring "good or service." He tried to correct this speech problem last week, and the discouraging results are reported below. --Politex



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ""When they demand or good a service in our society, somebody is more likely to produce it." --George W. Bush, Indiana, circa Sept. 5, 2002. WP, Sept. 10, 2002


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    "There's no doubt in my mind that we should allow the world worst leaders to hold America hostage, to threaten our peace, to threaten our friends and allies with the world's worst weapons." --George W. Bush, South Bend, Indiana, Sept. 5, 2002. Official White House Site


    "Washington is a town where there's all kinds of allegations. You've heard much of the allegations. And if people have got solid information, please come forward with it. And that would be people inside the information who are the so-called anonymous sources, or people outside the information—outside the administration."
    --George W. Bush, Chicago, September 30, 2003


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "...that's just the nature of democracy. Sometimes pure politics enters into the rhetoric."
    --George W. Bush, Crawford, Tx., August 8, 2003



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace."
    --George W. Bush, July 25, 2003




    GO TO HTTP://WWW.BUSHWATCH.ORG for more..

    (Original post by Unregistered)
    why, what authority does America have, the same people once ruled by the British, now basically being ruled by Israel (jews).
    Well...let me thing.... NONE? thats an easy to awnser question isn't it.. but they find a way to do it anyway.
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    DELETED DUE TO WELL.. DOUBLE POST?
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Well...let me thing.... NONE? thats an easy to awnser question isn't it.. but they find a way to do it anyway.
    is it cos, no other country got the balls to stand up against them, due to the shear size of the country, and nuclear weapons (technology) they have?

    (Original post by Wzz)
    Unless any of you have access to a large amount of fairly secret military intelligence relating to our recent conflict, I would recommend you don't dictate whether or not we should have gone to war.

    We definately should have; all our reasons were correct.
    ISRAEL: The `forgotten' weapons of mass destruction

    BY NEIL SAMMONDS
    The world's most efficient “secret” manufacturer of weapons of mass destruction was not Iraq, nor is it Syria — it is Washington's closest ally and partner in the Middle East, Israel.

    In September 1986, Mordechai Vanunu, a technician at Israel's Dimona nuclear site, revealed to the British Sunday Times that the nuclear military program based there had produced “over 200” nuclear warheads.

    The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists estimates that Israel has the world's fifth-largest stockpile of nuclear warheads (more than Britain's 185, the bulletin believes).

    In February 2000, Knesset member Issam Mahoul said Israel had “200 to 300” nuclear weapons; in August of that year, the Federation of American Scientists said that Israel could have produced “at least 100 nuclear weapons, but probably not significantly more than 200”; the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute estimates that Israel has 200 nukes. Other sources, including Jane's Intelligence Review, estimate that Tel Aviv has between 400 and 500 nuclear weapons.

    What Dimona is to Israel's nuclear program, the Israeli Institute for Biological Research (IIBR) at Nes Ziona is to its chemical and biological warfare (CBW) programme. The high-security facility does not appear on aerial survey photographs and maps, with orange groves taking its place.

    Except for token visits to Dimona by a Norwegian team in 1961 and a US team in 1969, there have been no international inspections on the site. Even Israel's parliament, the Knesset, is denied access.

    However, the 1993 report by the Office of Technology Assessment for the US Congress states that Israel has “undeclared offensive chemical warfare capabilities” and is '`generally reported as having an undeclared offensive biological warfare program”.

    Anthony Cordesman of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies states that Israel has conducted extensive research into gas warfare and is ready to produce biological weapons.

    According to an exhaustive study by Karel Knip, a Dutch journalist, the IIBR's work has included the synthesis of nerve gases such as tabun, sarin and VX.

    The October 1992 crash of an El Al cargo plane in Amsterdam, which caused at least 47 deaths and caused hundreds of immediate and subsequent mysterious illnesses, led to the disclosure in 1998 that the flight was carrying chemicals including 227.5 litres of dimethyl methylphosphonate (DMMP) — enough to produce 270 kilograms of sarin. The DMMP was supplied by Solkatronic Chemicals Inc of Morrisville, Pennsylvania, and was destined for the IIBR.

    There are allegations that Israel has used CBW on numerous occasions since 1948. Israeli historian Uri Milstein has alleged that “in many conquered Arab villages, the water supply was poisoned to prevent the inhabitants from coming back”. Milstein states that one of the largest of such covert operations caused the typhoid outbreak in Acre in May 1948.

    In 1954, it was widely reported that Israeli defence minister Pinchas Lavon had proposed using CBW for special operations. In 1955, Prime Minister Ben Gurion ordered the weaponisation and stockpiling of chemical weapons in case of a war with Egypt. Former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky claims that lethal tests have been performed on Arab prisoners at the IIBR.

    Chemical defoliants were used by the army against Palestinian lands, including Ain el Beida in 1968, Araqba in 1972 and Mejdel Beni Fadil in 1973. Chemical weapons were used in the 1982 war on Lebanon, including hydrogen cyanide, nerve gas and phosphorus shells. In the 1980s, lethal gases were used against Palestinian civilians and Palestinian, Lebanese and Israeli Jewish prisoners.

    Discussing delivery systems, the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists states that Israel's US-supplied F-16 squadrons based at Nevatim and Ramon are the most likely carriers of nuclear warheads and that a small group of pilots has been trained for nuclear strikes.

    According to the Sunday Times, F-16s crews are also “trained to fit an active chemical or biological weapon within minutes of receiving the command to attack”. Israel's F-4s, F-15s and Jaguars are also nuclear-capable.

    Israel's long-range missiles, the Jericho I (with a range of 660km) and Jericho II (1500km) are also nuclear-capable. The Shavit satellite launch vehicle is convertible into an intercontinental ballistic missile with a range of 7800km.

    Israel also has three submarines — the Dolphin, the Leviathan and the Tekuma — which are reportedly modified to carry nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.

    Israel is widely believed to possess a tactical nuclear capability, including small nuclear landmines and nuclear warheads that it can fire from cannons.

    Israel has signed but not ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention, but has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty .

    (Original post by Unregistered)
    ISRAEL: The `forgotten' weapons of mass destruction

    BY NEIL SAMMONDS
    The world's most efficient “secret” manufacturer of weapons of mass destruction was not Iraq, nor is it Syria — it is Washington's closest ally and partner in the Middle East, Israel.

    In September 1986, Mordechai Vanunu, a technician at Israel's Dimona nuclear site, revealed to the British Sunday Times that the nuclear military program based there had produced “over 200” nuclear warheads.

    The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists estimates that Israel has the world's fifth-largest stockpile of nuclear warheads (more than Britain's 185, the bulletin believes).

    In February 2000, Knesset member Issam Mahoul said Israel had “200 to 300” nuclear weapons; in August of that year, the Federation of American Scientists said that Israel could have produced “at least 100 nuclear weapons, but probably not significantly more than 200”; the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute estimates that Israel has 200 nukes. Other sources, including Jane's Intelligence Review, estimate that Tel Aviv has between 400 and 500 nuclear weapons.

    What Dimona is to Israel's nuclear program, the Israeli Institute for Biological Research (IIBR) at Nes Ziona is to its chemical and biological warfare (CBW) programme. The high-security facility does not appear on aerial survey photographs and maps, with orange groves taking its place.

    Except for token visits to Dimona by a Norwegian team in 1961 and a US team in 1969, there have been no international inspections on the site. Even Israel's parliament, the Knesset, is denied access.

    However, the 1993 report by the Office of Technology Assessment for the US Congress states that Israel has “undeclared offensive chemical warfare capabilities” and is '`generally reported as having an undeclared offensive biological warfare program”.

    Anthony Cordesman of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies states that Israel has conducted extensive research into gas warfare and is ready to produce biological weapons.

    According to an exhaustive study by Karel Knip, a Dutch journalist, the IIBR's work has included the synthesis of nerve gases such as tabun, sarin and VX.

    The October 1992 crash of an El Al cargo plane in Amsterdam, which caused at least 47 deaths and caused hundreds of immediate and subsequent mysterious illnesses, led to the disclosure in 1998 that the flight was carrying chemicals including 227.5 litres of dimethyl methylphosphonate (DMMP) — enough to produce 270 kilograms of sarin. The DMMP was supplied by Solkatronic Chemicals Inc of Morrisville, Pennsylvania, and was destined for the IIBR.

    There are allegations that Israel has used CBW on numerous occasions since 1948. Israeli historian Uri Milstein has alleged that “in many conquered Arab villages, the water supply was poisoned to prevent the inhabitants from coming back”. Milstein states that one of the largest of such covert operations caused the typhoid outbreak in Acre in May 1948.

    In 1954, it was widely reported that Israeli defence minister Pinchas Lavon had proposed using CBW for special operations. In 1955, Prime Minister Ben Gurion ordered the weaponisation and stockpiling of chemical weapons in case of a war with Egypt. Former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky claims that lethal tests have been performed on Arab prisoners at the IIBR.

    Chemical defoliants were used by the army against Palestinian lands, including Ain el Beida in 1968, Araqba in 1972 and Mejdel Beni Fadil in 1973. Chemical weapons were used in the 1982 war on Lebanon, including hydrogen cyanide, nerve gas and phosphorus shells. In the 1980s, lethal gases were used against Palestinian civilians and Palestinian, Lebanese and Israeli Jewish prisoners.

    Discussing delivery systems, the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists states that Israel's US-supplied F-16 squadrons based at Nevatim and Ramon are the most likely carriers of nuclear warheads and that a small group of pilots has been trained for nuclear strikes.

    According to the Sunday Times, F-16s crews are also “trained to fit an active chemical or biological weapon within minutes of receiving the command to attack”. Israel's F-4s, F-15s and Jaguars are also nuclear-capable.

    Israel's long-range missiles, the Jericho I (with a range of 660km) and Jericho II (1500km) are also nuclear-capable. The Shavit satellite launch vehicle is convertible into an intercontinental ballistic missile with a range of 7800km.

    Israel also has three submarines — the Dolphin, the Leviathan and the Tekuma — which are reportedly modified to carry nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.

    Israel is widely believed to possess a tactical nuclear capability, including small nuclear landmines and nuclear warheads that it can fire from cannons.

    Israel has signed but not ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention, but has not signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty .
    Israel has also said 'It is NOT a 'no first strike' government'.
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    That's exactly the thinking of Vienna! Blind faith in the 'establishment' and their laws - which are only for the good of us all. Sorry Vienna, I jut thought of you immediately I saw this post!
    ahh, the unregistered crowd again. how moving...
    im flattered.
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    i have an aunt and uncle who are american and when discussing whether to go to war they replied "we have to put our trust in the people with power and support them all the way" and they are both well-educated people. i found it shocking how they could have such a naive viewpoint for two such intelligent people, i think that when you start putting blind faith in the people that rule over you there is a real cause for concern as that is how dictatoships are born!
    your aunt and uncle probably respected the decisions of their head of state, whether they believed them to be right or wrong. and how on earth that leads to dictatorships is beyond me. it seems far more of an intelligent way of thinking to back your troops and hope that they are right even if you dont believe the right decision was taken, than label Bush everything under the sun and not actually pay attention to the real arguments.

    i lost all my respect for america after the invasion of Iraq. whenever anyone used the oil argument i would dismiss it as anti american propoganda and argue that Bush would not do something so selfish. my main arugment was that a trust fund would be set up into which all proceeds from iraqi oil would be put in and the funds used to help rebuild Iraq (the very words used by Tony Blair). several months later and this fund has failed to materialise just like the so called weapons of mass destruction. the countdown to doomsday has begun...
    what on earth gave you that idea. the coalition is tabling an idea to pay the Iraqi people the proceeds from oil sales. money upto now has been channelled into restoring those resources. its abit early to draw conclusions about where the money is. you probably find its been spent.
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    (Original post by Toyosi)
    Just to correct you, America has never used Nuclear weapons against another country. They used Atomic weapons in Hiroshima and Nagasaki which i think you're confusing.


    Think you're missing my point. I feel that America is more of a threat to world peace than any other nation or leader and I don't know how long the world is going to go on ignoring this renegade nation's wrongs. Yeah, Iraq violated UN sanctions but America was more than willing to go to war with or without the UN's backing. That just shows that they don't give a crap about what the rest of the world thinks. I can't believe that people out there really believe George Bush wanted to help the poor people of Iraq. Perhaps I am a cynic but I really don't think America ever has other people's interests at heart. Bush is such a retard. Can't believe he wants to bring back anti abortion laws in America and he's inflicting it upon other nations through tied aid.
    dreadfully distorted.
 
 
 
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