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Infinity
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#61
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#61
(Original post by vienna95)
so you wouldnt know anything more substantial than us.
*pounds out a little drum roll on desk*
I'd say that was check and mate!
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Wzz
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Infinity)
*pounds out a little drum roll on desk*
I'd say that was check and mate!
As mentioned previously, it's not just those in the Defence Int Staff or civilian int services who know everything; aircrew, among others, are kept informed of a lot more than what's in the papers. Widely in the military there's plenty of int briefings available to anyone who can be bothered reading them. Colleagues in the int services are allowed to tell you anything you're interested in up to your security clearance.
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Infinity
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Wzz)
My rank's equivalent to an Army captain.

Rank however isn't commensurate with security clearance. An Army colonel doesn't have any interaction with air intelligence, for example, unless he needs it. However, aircrew are regularly kept informed of air int because it's what they work in. A lot of it is who you know; some interesting things comes out over a chat at dinner for example.

A senior officer in the Army would know a vast amount more than someone in my service concerning the land picture, however. What did you do in the reserves? If you were medical personnel, or in the TA, mid to high level int wouldn't come your way and air int would be no use to you. If you were a reserve pilot, you'd have the entire air picture rebriefed every day, as well as an overview of the general intelligence picture.
Aircrew are informed of strictly what they need to know only!
Who you know has nothing to do w/ it. If you have senior officers gossiping away intell secrets, Never mind cos it's just ridiculous to even think that. I was in air traffic control, yes we knew what was going on w/ the jets where they were going and such, however there was never a reason for us to know why they were going. Air intell has nothing to do w/ top secret intell. I give you credit you talk a good game.
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Vienna
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Wzz)
My rank's equivalent to an Army captain.

Rank however isn't commensurate with security clearance. An Army colonel doesn't have any interaction with air intelligence, for example, unless he needs it. However, aircrew are regularly kept informed of air int because it's what they work in. A lot of it is who you know; some interesting things comes out over a chat at dinner for example.

A senior officer in the Army would know a vast amount more than someone in my service concerning the land picture, however. What did you do in the reserves? If you were medical personnel, or in the TA, mid to high level int wouldn't come your way and air int would be no use to you. If you were a reserve pilot, you'd have the entire air picture rebriefed every day, as well as an overview of the general intelligence picture.

Edit; assuming your knowledge of military activity and intelligence comes from national news, then pretty much anyone of two-stripe officer rank in the services is likely to know an awful lot more than you. I've certainly seen enough to make me quite happy that those in the media searching for proof have got a few of their facts wrong.
but we are not talking about specific target details, we are talking about the fact that the coalition is in a political situation roughly outlined by the media. the problem is that the media and the public believe the current situation concludes that war wasnt necessary, where as, on the contrary, it says the opposite. i hear alot of rumours myself from a number of friends who hold 'interesting' positions, but your suggestion that the coalition has intelligence accounting for and confirming the whereabouts of WMDs is a little far fetched and quite frankly, if there was a conspiracy, you would not know about it.
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Infinity
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Wzz)
As mentioned previously, it's not just those in the Defence Int Staff or civilian int services who know everything; aircrew, among others, are kept informed of a lot more than what's in the papers. Widely in the military there's plenty of int briefings available to anyone who can be bothered reading them. Colleagues in the int services are allowed to tell you anything you're interested in up to your security clearance.
Do really think they would put anything that really matters in a publicised intell breif? :rolleyes:
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Wzz
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Infinity)
I was in air traffic control, yes we knew what was going on w/ the jets where they were going and such, however there was never a reason for us to know why they were going.
And there's a very good reason for those who were in the Gulf to know the entire air picture! Air traffic controllers, correctly, don't. If you're going to go and be a warfighter you need to know the full intel picture; if you didn't serve as ATC in theatre then naturally you don't need to know the details of what the aircrew are doing out there.

The coalition have photos of equipment being taken from known weapons sites, moved to locations in the desert, and buried.
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#67
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#67
(Original post by Wzz)
And there's a very good reason for those who were in the Gulf to know the entire air picture! Air traffic controllers, correctly, don't. If you're going to go and be a warfighter you need to know the full intel picture; if you didn't serve as ATC in theatre then naturally you don't need to know the details of what the aircrew are doing out there.

The coalition have photos of equipment being taken from known weapons sites, moved to locations in the desert, and buried.
If the coalition have photos of equipment (not necessarily WMDs) being buried why haven't they found them?
P.
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Wzz)
*snip*

Interesting reading, but I'm not up on Israeli int. Was your point that Israel shouldn't be allowed to develop weapons if Iraq isn't, despite Iraq's slightly chequered history with regard to the west?
Yes it was....Why does USA support Israel?

Most of the USA administration are jewish and Tony Blairs main advisor is jewish - Jack Straw. JS was really for the war in Iraq.
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Wzz
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#69
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#69
It's far from that simple, unfortunately; it's not a matter of having complete, unrestricted access to the entire country and just digging whereever they like.
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Infinity
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#70
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#70
(Original post by Wzz)
And there's a very good reason for those who were in the Gulf to know the entire air picture! Air traffic controllers, correctly, don't. If you're going to go and be a warfighter you need to know the full intel picture; if you didn't serve as ATC in theatre then naturally you don't need to know the details of what the aircrew are doing out there.

The coalition have photos of equipment being taken from known weapons sites, moved to locations in the desert, and buried.
No the pilots themselves don't know what they are doing out there either, it comes down to orders. Pilot is given his orders, they read, go drop bomb at so and so coordinates. Or go take some pictures at this location and so on. There are no details as far as "the full intell picture" handed out. You are briefed (as in a brief amount of info!) and thats it.
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#71
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#71
much respect....bout time some1 spoke their mind...if america think they're the only people suffering they should take a look at the rest of the world!!!!.....they need 2 get over themselves and realize there are other people on the planet!!!........if they're hurtin so much they should do somethin worth while!!!
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Jamie
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#72
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#72
(Original post by vienna95)
or rather what can they do to harm american or british national interests..nothing.
They already have hurt British nationals. Our citizens include all with Brit passports, many of whom fled zimbabwe or were killed in the last few years.
J
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Vienna
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#73
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#73
(Original post by foolfarian)
They already have hurt British nationals. Our citizens include all with Brit passports, many of whom fled zimbabwe or were killed in the last few years.
J
and europeans have more rights in our country than Commonwealth citizens, thats an issue for the Government, but in terms of legitimately posing a serious threat to British interests there isnt really a comparison.although i agree, little enough has been done. do you believe there is a racial tension issue here?
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#74
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#74
Madeleine Alrbight protest
http://www.oxfordstudent.com/2003-10-30/news/3

Gonna happen on a bigger scale at Uni of East Anglia...
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Vienna
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#75
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#75
(Original post by Jools)
Madeleine Alrbight protest
http://www.oxfordstudent.com/2003-10-30/news/3

Gonna happen on a bigger scale at Uni of East Anglia...
ridiculous.
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Wzz
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Infinity)
No the pilots themselves don't know what they are doing out there either, it comes down to orders. Pilot is given his orders, they read, go drop bomb at so and so coordinates. Or go take some pictures at this location and so on. There are no details as far as "the full intell picture" handed out. You are briefed (as in a brief amount of info!) and thats it.
There's a GR4 navigator lives a couple of doors down from me who served in the first Gulf conflict. I'll ask him to put in his own words the amount he was given before each sortie.

You do not enter a warzone without knowing what's going on; what the enemy has, what he's doing with them, and where at the very least. It's exceptionally dangerous.
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Infinity
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Wzz)
There's a GR4 navigator lives a couple of doors down from me who served in the first Gulf conflict. I'll ask him to put in his own words the amount he was given before each sortie.

You do not enter a warzone without knowing what's going on; what the enemy has, what he's doing with them, and where at the very least. It's exceptionally dangerous.
Yes, however that is not the point that is up for arguement. There is a difference between stategic intell and millitary intell as a whole.
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Vienna
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#78
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#78
(Original post by Jools)
Madeleine Alrbight protest
http://www.oxfordstudent.com/2003-10-30/news/3

Gonna happen on a bigger scale at Uni of East Anglia...
even more terrible, now i think of it....
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KC Kee
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#79
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#79
I dont know, i eman, hey bush is human first of all, and yeah, we've definately made soem be mistakes,(like bombing japan), but i think when we first made the decision to go after the whole terrorist think and sudam(sp?) i think we had our hearts in the right place(and in some places our total blind anger) but now i almost think its time to pull out, help clean up after ourselves and let Iraq get on with its own business.
see? not all Americans are brainwashed zombies, only the ridiculously weak minded ones.

and America doesnt dictate other countries, does it? :confused:
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KC Kee
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#80
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#80
sorry, that was aimed at an older comment,
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