'Socialism is a philosophy of failure.' Discuss. Watch

cleverasvoltaire
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Full quote: 'Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.'
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zippity.doodah
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true - in my opinion it is mostly a philosophy of wanting a big-daddy government to take care of you which reduces citizens to the status of basically incapable and unintelligent children
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democracyforum
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socialism = jealousy
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mojojojo101
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Capitalism is the philosophy of greed, division and exploitation.


I know this might be hard for for your bloated bourgeois consciousness to comprehend but sometimes failing together is.better than winning at the expense of.others.
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MindTheGaps
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
Capitalism is the philosophy of greed, division and exploitation.


I know this might be hard for for your bloated bourgeois consciousness to comprehend but sometimes failing together is.better than winning at the expense of.others.
But the point is that it's not at the expense of others. Everyone does better in capitalist societies. It's not just about sharing wealth, the free market creates extra wealth.

I know the UK or the US and so on are hardly perfect, but I'd rather be poor here than in Cuba, say. As it was better to be in West than East Germany, even though the latter was more equal.
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The_Mighty_Bush
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Read Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy by Joseph Schumpeter - http://digamo.free.fr/capisoc.pdf
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by Rinsed)
But the point is that it's not at the expense of others. Everyone does better in capitalist societies. It's not just about sharing wealth, the free market creates extra wealth.

I know the UK or the US and so on are hardly perfect, but I'd rather be poor here than in Cuba, say. As it was better to be in West than East Germany, even though the latter was more equal
UK/US vs Cuba is hardly a fair comparison, a comparison to China would surely be more appropriate (but you don't want to do that because it doesn't prove your point).
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MindTheGaps
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
UK/US vs Cuba is hardly a fair comparison, a comparison to China would surely be more appropriate (but you don't want to do that because it doesn't prove your point).
What are you talking about? I would infinitely rather be poor in the UK than in China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_China

But China's not really a communist country these days. It still has all the authoritarian trappings, but it's economic growth only started to take off once it started to embrace global markets, and now it has a wealthy and growing middle-class.
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The_Mighty_Bush
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
UK/US vs Cuba is hardly a fair comparison, a comparison to China would surely be more appropriate (but you don't want to do that because it doesn't prove your point).
  1. China suffers for decades under socialism.
  2. Implements market reforms and generally moves the economy into more of a capitalist direction.
  3. Has great economic growth and gets the most people out of poverty in history.

= socialism is better than capitalism?
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dyslexicvegie
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Both ideologies to the far left or right have ingrained weaknesses. That is why this country operates around the centre.

State provision is not a sign of weakness, it is the key to good government.
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cleverasvoltaire
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
Capitalism is the philosophy of greed, division and exploitation.


I know this might be hard for for your bloated bourgeois consciousness to comprehend but sometimes failing together is.better than winning at the expense of.others.
Giving everyone the chance to win seems a whole lot freer and fairer than everyone starving. Compare the freest economy, that of Hong Kong, and then a place like Venezuela which has a socialist government. Especially the poverty rates.
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cleverasvoltaire
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(Original post by dyslexicvegie)
Both ideologies to the far left or right have ingrained weaknesses. That is why this country operates around the centre.

State provision is not a sign of weakness, it is the key to good government.
People have always been unequal in every society, ever. Because not everyone is equal. However for those who work hard, they should have more. Libertarianism is far right and Hong Kong doesn't seem to be doing too badly as the operate with a similar laissez-faire policy which is fair right in terms of economic freedom.
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gijops
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Socialism was the main Idea behind the soviet union... look where that got 'em
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cleverasvoltaire
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(Original post by gijops)
Socialism was the main Idea behind the soviet union... look where that got 'em
And Mao... Pol Pot... Hitler... Stalin... Castro... I could go on.
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mojojojo101
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I guess I was wrong to even consider that capitalism isn't the greatest and most absolutely amazing thing ever to.have happened in the entirety of human history, actually, scratch that, the entire history of this and any other universe.

Roll on capitalism and (not very) free markets, **** the poor its probably their own fault and while we are at it we might as well just kill anyone who says they are a socialist or communist because seriously, they are clearly far to stupid to be alive.
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DragonRider17
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Yeah, I guess aliens will worship us for capitalism etc etc
I mean come on! I think anyone looking down will be appalled by the way we treat people using capitalism and profit as an excuse.
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MindTheGaps
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(Original post by DragonRider17)
Yeah, I guess aliens will worship us for capitalism etc etc
I mean come on! I think anyone looking down will be appalled by the way we treat people using capitalism and profit as an excuse.
Why? Capitalism is clearly the most efficient way of creating wealth for all.
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The_Mighty_Bush
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
I guess I was wrong to even consider that capitalism isn't the greatest and most absolutely amazing thing ever to.have happened in the entirety of human history, actually, scratch that, the entire history of this and any other universe.
Glad to see you are coming around.

(Original post by mojojojo101)
Roll on capitalism and (not very) free markets, **** the poor its probably their own fault and while we are at it we might as well just kill anyone who says they are a socialist or communist because seriously, they are clearly far to stupid to be alive.
Yes, we don't have free markets in the West right now, we have corporatism + socialist elements, it's good you see that too.

I wouldn't say they are stupid but rather naiive. Why is it different to have socialism this time? When it has almost always been a disaster?
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cleverasvoltaire
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
I guess I was wrong to even consider that capitalism isn't the greatest and most absolutely amazing thing ever to.have happened in the entirety of human history, actually, scratch that, the entire history of this and any other universe.

Roll on capitalism and (not very) free markets, **** the poor its probably their own fault and while we are at it we might as well just kill anyone who says they are a socialist or communist because seriously, they are clearly far to stupid to be alive.
Capitalism- pure capitalism though. Hong Kong capitalism. Pro social mobility.
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DragonRider17
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(Original post by Rinsed)
Why? Capitalism is clearly the most efficient way of creating wealth for all.
Then we take the best of capitalism and combine it with the best of socialism. I think Scandinavia has done this pretty well with a large welfare state.
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