The Pros and Cons of UKIP Watch

MNITJC
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The Pros
1. They're purple
it's much nicer than Tory Blue or Labour Red.

The Cons
1. Let's Leave the EU
Because that's a good idea. Let's stop free trade with 27 countries that contribute to 30% of our trade, and have it all taxed which will increase our prices & make us far less competitive in the world market. Multi-nationals might even leave our country and set up where there's more free trade, meaning loss of jobs! Great idea!
I'm not a die-hard Tory, but I agree with DC when he outlined his aims to reform the EU to lower protectionism for non-EU nations.

2. Let's NOT join EFTA
Leaving the EU may not be so bad for Britain if we then joined the European Free Trade Association. That 30% of our trade will be cut dramatically. Entering other Free Trade Areas/Agreements would take a while for British goods to get as much attention.
3. Let's make immigration a hot topic
It simply shouldn't be. Immigration issues arise in economic decline, that's natural - Not blaming UKIP. UKIP, however, have brought it into the forefront of British politics. The fact is, we achieve huge net gains from immigration and our country couldn't cope without it. Multiculturalism DOES work. Yes, some things need to be combated, but it shouldn't be as big an issue as it is.
4. The representatives
Look at who's in UKIP. Every week we get some representative of UKIP coming out with a ridiculously racist, sexist, homophobic comments. I'm sure you'll all agree it doesn't take a huge amount of brain power to know that anti-equality comments are extremely stupid. That's who UKIP attracts. But worse than that, they say it publicly, when they know they're representing a party that's known for it and is trying to shake that image.
5. The support
Look who's supporting UKIP. 'Britain First' on Facebook - the anti-islam hate group that Photoshop images, and lie. That go for 'freedom of speech' but delete any comment opposing their views (even if it's not offensive!). That Allow the most disgusting comments about Islam. This group is also a 'political party' with a fair few policies that are EXACTLY the same as BNP's.
6. Is now the time?.
Okay, so you're still thinking UKIP's worth the vote (even though they're a joke). We're in economic recovery - the best in Europe. Is now a good time to implement policies that will undoubtedly change the economy? Whether or not you believe we'll benefit (we won't), there's a chance (a very big one) that we won't. These policies haven't been tested in modern Britain. If they go bad (they would), we'd see a fall in growth. Why not wait until we're in a better economic state?
7. It's a cycle.
This is the biggest one for me. There is a clear cycle that the more extreme (UKIP isn't as extreme as the nazis, or pegida/national front but is extreme in UK politics nonetheless) parties get a rise in popularity during economic decline. Why? Because when we're feeling the strain, human nature says "let's stick together and survive as a smaller group". It's wrong. It doesn't work. If UKIP is a good vote, why were they so laughable in recent years? Why is it only now, when we're still feeling the effects of the recession, do they have popularity?
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Smug Life
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(Original post by MNITJC)
Because that's a good idea. Let's stop free trade with 27 countries that contribute to 30% of our trade, and have it all taxed which will increase our prices & make us far less competitive in the world market. Multi-nationals might even leave our country and set up where there's more free trade, meaning loss of jobs! Great idea!
I'm not a die-hard Tory, but I agree with DC when he outlined his aims to reform the EU to lower protectionism for non-EU nations.
No evidence for what you've just said regarding multi-nationals leaving. UKIP have said that they'd want to reach a free trade agreement with the EU, just like European countries such as Norway, Turkey and Switzerland, and external countries such as Mexico have. On reforming the EU regulations, Cameron won't be able to. Juncker and Merkel have already said there won't be any major reforms.

(Original post by MNITJC)
Leaving the EU may not be so bad for Britain if we then joined the European Free Trade Association. That 30% of our trade will be cut dramatically. Entering other Free Trade Areas/Agreements would take a while for British goods to get as much attention.
Why would 30% of our trade be cut if we entered a free trade agreement? We supply to the rest of the EU, far more produce than we import. It'd be in their interests to make a free trade agreement, also. You have no evidence to base that last sentence on either.

(Original post by MNITJC)
3. Let's make immigration a hot topic
It simply shouldn't be. Immigration issues arise in economic decline, that's natural - Not blaming UKIP. UKIP, however, have brought it into the forefront of British politics. The fact is, we achieve huge net gains from immigration and our country couldn't cope without it. Multiculturalism DOES work. Yes, some things need to be combated, but it shouldn't be as big an issue as it is.
Ah, the typical "immigrants bring a net profit". What about the housing strain, NHS strain, education strain, culture clashes, violence and crimes that are brought here along with mass immigration. There are 300,000 people coming to this country (net) every year, compared to about 30,000 30 years ago, and you're saying that's not a major issue?

(Original post by MNITJC)
Look at who's in UKIP. Every week we get some representative of UKIP coming out with a ridiculously racist, sexist, homophobic comments. I'm sure you'll all agree it doesn't take a huge amount of brain power to know that anti-equality comments are extremely stupid. That's who UKIP attracts. But worse than that, they say it publicly, when they know they're representing a party that's known for it and is trying to shake that image.
Yes, and you also get your Tory candidates charged with (sometimes child) sex offences. All of these people that you've mentioned have resigned or been disciplined. I don't even understand why you've made this point.

(Original post by MNITJC)
5. The support
Look who's supporting UKIP. 'Britain First' on Facebook - the anti-islam hate group that Photoshop images, and lie. That go for 'freedom of speech' but delete any comment opposing their views (even if it's not offensive!). That Allow the most disgusting comments about Islam. This group is also a 'political party' with a fair few policies that are EXACTLY the same as BNP's.
You're not able to become a UKIP member if you've ever been a Britain First or BNP member. You're saying a reason not to vote for a party is because of the views of a select couple of their voters? I'm sure there are plenty of criminals that have said that they would vote for the other major parties. Again, I don't know why you've made this point.

(Original post by MNITJC)
Okay, so you're still thinking UKIP's worth the vote (even though they're a joke). We're in economic recovery - the best in Europe. Is now a good time to implement policies that will undoubtedly change the economy? Whether or not you believe we'll benefit (we won't), there's a chance (a very big one) that we won't. These policies haven't been tested in modern Britain. If they go bad (they would), we'd see a fall in growth. Why not wait until we're in a better economic state?
Yes, considering we haven't even entered austerity yet, and the strain on public services is already huge. You're literally denying that they'd save money even though there's evidence in their manifesto of the amount of money that they'd save with many policies. Many of them work in over 100 countries on Earth. You ignorance is incredible.

(Original post by MNITJC)
This is the biggest one for me. There is a clear cycle that the more extreme (UKIP isn't as extreme as the nazis, or pegida/national front but is extreme in UK politics nonetheless) parties get a rise in popularity during economic decline. Why? Because when we're feeling the strain, human nature says "let's stick together and survive as a smaller group". It's wrong. It doesn't work. If UKIP is a good vote, why were they so laughable in recent years? Why is it only now, when we're still feeling the effects of the recession, do they have popularity?
The only reason that anyone would say that they're "extreme", is because nearly all of the major parties in Britain have the same stance on immigration, being a part of the EU, foreign aid, etc. They started in 1994, of course there weren't going to be getting 15%+ of the national vote in the first decade of forming.
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Nice.Guy
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(Original post by MNITJC)
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Would love to hear your response to the guy above - his reply is spot on for every point. UKIP have never suggested leaving the EU without a free trade deal.

As for why immigration has been brought up? It hit a record 298k last year, that's a lot of extra people to be taking in for a country that's already falling behind on the services it can provide - and the effects on healthcare, housing and education are clear as anything.

I completely disagree that for a country to improve, you have to sit back and do nothing. That's the worst choice possible, and it's this blasé attitude by politicians - to shy away from big decisions and hide from controversy- that's got us into this mess in the first place.
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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by MNITJC)
3. Let's make immigration a hot topic
It simply shouldn't be. Immigration issues arise in economic decline, that's natural - Not blaming UKIP. UKIP, however, have brought it into the forefront of British politics. The fact is, we achieve huge net gains from immigration and our country couldn't cope without it. Multiculturalism DOES work. Yes, some things need to be combated, but it shouldn't be as big an issue as it is.
The public sector and infustructure needs to expand to match an increasing population (whatever the reason for the increase), in a time where almost every other party is either cutting said services, or not increasing them enough, can we really sustain such an increasing population?

It would be great to build houses, facilities, hospitals etc to match natural growth and immigration, but do we have the money for it in this climate?


(Original post by MNITJC)
4. The representatives
Look at who's in UKIP. Every week we get some representative of UKIP coming out with a ridiculously racist, sexist, homophobic comments. I'm sure you'll all agree it doesn't take a huge amount of brain power to know that anti-equality comments are extremely stupid. That's who UKIP attracts. But worse than that, they say it publicly, when they know they're representing a party that's known for it and is trying to shake that image.
And you get members of the Labour party and Tory party making racist comments without any repercussions.
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Floyd Pinkerton
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(Original post by Farm_Ecology)

It would be great to build houses, facilities, hospitals etc to match natural growth and immigration, but do we have the money for it in this climate?
With 6.8% of tax (including corporate tax and VAT) not being paid in 2012-13 (alone), resulting in a deficit of £34billion, we have the potential to get the money required, but parties such as Ukip seem more focused on directing their attention to immigration.

Now I am not saying that immigration does not have an effect on the provision of services, I would be pretty naive to make such a statement, but more attention needs to be placed on tax avoiders.

Where does Ukip stand on companies that fail to pay corporation tax? Including the estimated £11billion in tax that foreign companies failed to pay to HMRC in 2013-14.
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