SNP hooligans shout down Eddie Izzard

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MatthewParis
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...b00e152192602c

Not entirely surprising, I've heard plenty of reports from Scotland of people saying they're afraid to express unionist views in public because SNP supporters become abusive

It is, though, rather odd that they would be screaming "Red Tories out", given that the SNP;

*Plans harsher "austerity" than the Labour Party (http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...plans-says-ifs)
*The SNP privatised ScotRail and handed it over to foreign corporations
*Slashed the FE budget by 140,000 places
*Deliberately underspent the Scottish justice budget by £100 million at a time when courts were closing for lack of money
*Plans to lower corporation tax and thus hand over hundreds of millions to the largest corporations

The idea that the SNP is some kind of pure, aethereal progressive party is a fantasy and the Scottish body politic has been poisoned by the aggression and sanctimony of many SNP supporters
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Reformed2010
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Good to know the left is united against the right as ever. SNP (especially), Greens and Labour supporters need to shut the **** up and focus their attention on Blue Tories and Purple Tories. Idiots. Embarrassing us Socialist. We need to defeat a Tory Government and whatever the issue/s was with Blair, Brown and Milliband recognise the alternative was/is Smith, Howard, Cameron. You lost the referendum, I lost the AV referendum. Get over it
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MatthewParis
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(Original post by Reformed2010)
Good to know the left is united against the right as ever. SNP (especially), Greens and Labour supporters need to shut the **** up and focus their attention on Blue Tories and Purple Tories. Idiots. Embarrassing us Socialist. We need to defeat a Tory Government and whatever the issue/s was with Blair, Brown and Milliband recognise the alternative was/is Smith, Howard, Cameron. You lost the referendum, I lost the AV referendum. Get over it
Good points, though are the SNP truly of the left? They're more a small-c conservative party that has shifted to the left due to political opportunism. And in many ways, the invigorating stimulus of nationalist hatred allows left-wing nationalists to completely ignore the SNP's actual policies (many of which are quite right wing, particularly closing FE courses and ****ing many working-class kids chances at life to pay for the middle-class tuition fee bribe)
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Everglow
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It seems to me that much of the SNP has become synonymous with anti-Westminster and even anti-UK sentiment. It doesn't surprise me one bit that non-SNP parties are being hounded down by SNP supporters. In many ways I wish Scotland had gone independent, so we could avoid all this nasty hostility that only promotes separation and rivalry between Scotland and the rest of the UK, but especially England.
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SausageMan
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(Original post by MatthewParis)
Good points, though are the SNP truly of the left? They're more a small-c conservative party that has shifted to the left due to political opportunism. And in many ways, the invigorating stimulus of nationalist hatred allows left-wing nationalists to completely ignore the SNP's actual policies (many of which are quite right wing, particularly closing FE courses and ****ing many working-class kids chances at life to pay for the middle-class tuition fee bribe)
Image


From Political compass.

Scotrail was already run by FirstGroup, before it changed hands to Abellio. So it wasn't publicly owned during that time so couldn't have been privatised. Further more the powers to create a national rail franchise haven't even been devolved yet.

Image

Thats hardly a riot.
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MatthewParis
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(Original post by SausageMan)
From Political compass.
That political spectrum is a joke, with no connection whatsoever to the reality of the parties' positions.

Scotrail was already run by FirstGroup, before it changed hands to Abellio. So it wasn't publicly owned during that time so couldn't have been privatised.
Once the franchise ends, the ownership of the railway reverts to the franchisor (the Scottish government).

It was within the powers of the Scottish government to invoke s30 of the Railways Act 1993 and run the railways directly as a state subsidiary (as the Labour government did when it brought the East Coast mainline back into public ownership in 2009 with Directly Operated Railways).

The Scottish government, under intense pressure from railway magnate billionaire and SNP donor Brain Souter, opted not to directly operate the railway using their powers under s30 of the act, and instead decided to refranchise / reprivatise the railway to a foreign corporation

That was certainly one of the options open to them, but they shouldn't pretend to be some kind of progressive party when they decided not to invoke s30 of the act to directly operate the railway as a state subsidiary
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Reformed2010
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(Original post by SausageMan)
Image


From Political compass.

Scotrail was already run by FirstGroup, before it changed hands to Abellio. So it wasn't publicly owned during that time so couldn't have been privatised. Further more the powers to create a national rail franchise haven't even been devolved yet.

Image

Thats hardly a riot.
Political Compass is a joke. Despite supporting many violent uprisings past and present, opposing religion, opposing nationalism, supporting globalisation it puts me with Ghandi. :rolleyes:
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MatthewParis
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(Original post by SausageMan)
Scotrail was already run by FirstGroup, before it changed hands to Abellio. So it wasn't publicly owned during that time so couldn't have been privatised. Further more the powers to create a national rail franchise haven't even been devolved yet.
So now that you know the SNP privatised ScotRail and failed to invoke a legal provision that would have allowed them to bring it into public ownership, are you now going to tell us you supported it all along?
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MatthewParis
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(Original post by SausageMan)

Thats hardly a riot.
Aww, did Wings over Scotland or Bella Caledonia post a picture and tell you what to think? It's all just a bit of rough and tumble, eh? A bit of harmless fun to shout people down during a political event?

There was footage on the news tonight, they were hitting Murphy with placards and shouting in his face. Sturgeon has already disowned these fascists.

So who is in the right, the protestors or Sturgeon?
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SausageMan
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(Original post by MatthewParis)
So now that you know the SNP privatised ScotRail and failed to invoke a legal provision that would have allowed them to bring it into public ownership, are you now going to tell us you supported it all along?
It wasn't publicly owned to begin with. So how could it be ours to privatise?
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SausageMan
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(Original post by MatthewParis)
Aww, did Wings over Scotland or Bella Caledonia post a picture and tell you what to think? It's all just a bit of rough and tumble, eh? A bit of harmless fun to shout people down during a political event?

There was footage on the news tonight, they were hitting Murphy with placards and shouting in his face. Sturgeon has already disowned these fascists.

So who is in the right, the protestors or Sturgeon?
So I'm not allowed to go shopping in George Street, without being dubbed a 'cyber-nat'?

The Unionist and Nationalist side were both as bad as each other during the referendum.
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MatthewParis
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(Original post by SausageMan)
So I'm not allowed to go shopping in George Street, without being dubbed a 'cyber-nat'?
I didn't say cybernat, I questioned your interpretation of the photo as implying there was no intimidation or questionable behaviour.

I am now asking you to say who you side with; the inarticulate thugs who harassed Eddie Izzard (I saw them interviewed; they were literally toothless) or Nicola Sturgeon?

I thought Sturgeon's comments were quite statesmanlike. Which raises a question of why so many SNP supporters reflexively rushed to the defence of the thugs?
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MatthewParis
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(Original post by SausageMan)
It wasn't publicly owned to begin with.
Actually it is; the franchisor always remains the owner of the right to licence. The Scottish government is the franchisor, and therefore the owner of that right. If they don't licence it, it reverts to full and direct state ownership and control. You seem to be confused and under a misapprehension that FirstGroup sold it to Abellio

So how could it be ours to privatise?
The franchisor has the right to allow the railway to revert to public ownership / operation simply by refusing to issue a new franchise/licence. At that point they would take direct control of the railway under state owneship.

Instead, the SNP decided to refranchise it which puts it back into private control for another fixed period of time.

Are you saying the licence doesn't revert with the effluxion of time?
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SausageMan
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(Original post by MatthewParis)
I didn't say cybernat, I questioned your interpretation of the photo as implying there was no intimidation or questionable behaviour.

I am now asking you to say who you side with; the inarticulate thugs who harassed Eddie Izzard (I saw them interviewed; they were literally toothless) or Nicola Sturgeon?

I thought Sturgeon's comments were quite statesmanlike. Which raises a question of why so many SNP supporters reflexively rushed to the defence of the thugs?
Both parties have a right to air their views, probably the protesters we're a bit to heavy handed on this occasion.

Every one has a right to air their views, even if they are "literally toothless".
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MatthewParis
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(Original post by SausageMan)
Both parties have a right to air their views, probably the protesters we're a bit to heavy handed on this occasion.
So you disagree with Sturgeon that their behaviour was completely unacceptable?

Every one has a right to air their views, even if they are "literally toothless".
They have a right to air their views, they don't have a right to abuse and harass someone in the streets simply because they believe in different things
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SausageMan
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(Original post by MatthewParis)
Actually it is; the franchisor always remains the owner of the right to licence. The Scottish government is the franchisor, and therefore the owner of that right. If they don't licence it, it reverts to full and direct state ownership and control. You seem to be confused and under a misapprehension that FirstGroup sold it to Abellio



The franchisor has the right to allow the railway to revert to public ownership / operation simply by refusing to issue a new franchise/licence. At that point they would take direct control of the railway under state owneship.

Instead, the SNP decided to refranchise it which puts it back into private control for another fixed period of time.

Are you saying the licence doesn't revert with the effluxion of time?
http://www.snp.org/sites/default/fil...rk_griffin.pdf

https://www.smith-commission.scot/wp...n_Report-1.pdf

This may help you find an answer to your query.
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jammy4041
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Jeez, why the heck do Labour supporters attack attack and attack the SNP? (and the Greens for that matter). They are a left-wing party, occupying the space that old-Labour used to occupy. They apply it with a Scottish twist.

We'll pretend that Labour didn't privatize the London Underground, introduce Tuition fees and introduced privatization to the NHS, shall we? Or that, Labour wants to spend money on maintaining and/or replacing Trident.

For the record, I've seen reports that the SNP have plans for a budget that cuts £6B. Labour have plans for a budget that cuts £1B. Lib Dems want to cut £12B and the Conservatives want to cut £30B. Good government is about compromise, and if these are correct values, £3B of net-cuts sound a whole lot better than £12B or £30B.

Miliband is a paper tiger. Rolling over and letting the Tories do their worst, because he flat out refuses to work with the SNP if he doesn't win a majority, is the worst betrayal of the Left.

Labour has lost in Scotland because it still hasn't learned the lessons of 2011. To win in Scotland, you need to have a message directed from Aberdeen, Dundee, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness and John O'Groats. NOT WESTMINSTER.
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RK
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I'm increasingly worried by the angry and often violent approach a number of pro-SNP and pro-independence people are taking in Scotland. It's needs to be stopped now, The SNP need to very strongly and publicly call them out on it and say it's not acceptable and not what they represent.

If the do not, then this bad feeling will grow and the violence will grow. But I can't see the SNP doing it as they would likely lose support.
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Reformed2010
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(Original post by jammy4041)
Jeez, why the heck do Labour supporters attack attack and attack the SNP? (and the Greens for that matter). They are a left-wing party, occupying the space that old-Labour used to occupy. They apply it with a Scottish twist.

We'll pretend that Labour didn't privatize the London Underground, introduce Tuition fees and introduced privatization to the NHS, shall we? Or that, Labour wants to spend money on maintaining and/or replacing Trident.

For the record, I've seen reports that the SNP have plans for a budget that cuts £6B. Labour have plans for a budget that cuts £1B. Lib Dems want to cut £12B and the Conservatives want to cut £30B. Good government is about compromise, and if these are correct values, £3B of net-cuts sound a whole lot better than £12B or £30B.

Miliband is a paper tiger. Rolling over and letting the Tories do their worst, because he flat out refuses to work with the SNP if he doesn't win a majority, is the worst betrayal of the Left.

Labour has lost in Scotland because it still hasn't learned the lessons of 2011. To win in Scotland, you need to have a message directed from Aberdeen, Dundee, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Inverness and John O'Groats. NOT WESTMINSTER.
If Virgin Airways was funded through general taxation, had it's policy dictated by the UK Secretary of State for Transport and any UK citizen could fly without paying a single penny when they booked their ticket. Would you say 'the government has introduced privatisation in Virgin Airways'? :rolleyes:
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MatthewParis
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(Original post by jammy4041)
Jeez, why the heck do Labour supporters attack attack and attack the SNP?
That's a rather laughable comment given what occurred today; who was attacking who? Who was shouting down who, and being abusive?

They are a left-wing party, occupying the space that old-Labour used to occupy. They apply it with a Scottish twist.
Ahh, lowering corporation tax and privatising ScotRail is a "Scottish twist". Like almost all SNP supporters I've ever met, you completely ignore the facts about the Tartan Tories small-c conservative base and their right-wing policies.

Miliband is a paper tiger. Rolling over and letting the Tories do their worst, because he flat out refuses to work with the SNP if he doesn't win a majority, is the worst betrayal of the Left.
Stop whining. All Miliband is said is that he is not going to do a deal with the SNP; the SNP will still vote for a Labour Queen's Speech and put us in power, or they will be toxic in Scotland for a generation for letting the Tories in. Labour doesn't have to bribe the SNP to do what is both in their best interests and the right thing to do
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