EU referendum: Where does your vote lie?

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Poll: In or Out of EU?
In (62)
62%
Out (37)
37%
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VotreAltesse
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#1
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#1
A referendum seems an inevitability since David Cameron was re-elected Prime Minister.

Where does your vote lie? In or Out?

Out for me
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democracyforum
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#2
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#2
out

there is no reason to stay in

literally not one
we're Britain, not some random country in the middle of nowhere that will be forgotten about
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Jammy Duel
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#3
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#3
Second the above
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Tarnybxxx
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#4
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#4
In


Posted from TSR Mobile
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Dheorl
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#5
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#5
In
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JoshDawg
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#6
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#6
In, seeing as I'm concerned as to what trade may suffer in the short term when we leave. As long as we have a way of getting back on our feet, (maybe reestablishing ourselves in the commonwealth more?) then it'd be cool. Just as long as we aren't voting because of national pride, which can wreck a country (what Scotland almost did, luckily 55% of people had sense).
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The_Mighty_Bush
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#7
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#7
Out. It's a bureaucratic tyranny that won't exist in two decades.
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Unown Uzer
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#8
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#8
Definately out
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Rakas21
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#9
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#9
(Original post by VotreAltesse)
A referendum seems an inevitability since David Cameron was re-elected Prime Minister.

Where does your vote lie? In or Out?

Out for me
'Undecided'.

Looking at the end goal i do actually support a European Federation however i'm not sure the UK will ever be part of it to a more integrated degree than we are now. Additionally, i think that Farage was right to say that we would not have joined knowing what we know now and for me i look at we lost because of it (ties to our brethren in Australia and New Zealand for one) and i think that was a dreadful mistake, possibly the biggest since letting Ireland go.

On the issues i shan't argue them here because in the history of TSR only one member has ever convinced me of their point on only one issue.

..

That being said, many of the current arguments for leaving don't sell me either.
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TheTechN1304
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#10
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#10
Out. Countries like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland do fantastic economically and aren't in the EU. The UK has a bigger economy than these countries put together, so I'm more than certain that we'd be able to cope. Controlling our own borders, being able to control our own laws, not having to pay huge amounts of money to a failing institution would reap benefits. I honestly don't understand the arguments for staying in. We don't need to be in the EU to set up good trade deals with other countries. We don't need to be in the EU to be a global financial centre. We don't need to be in the EU full stop.
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Rakas21
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#11
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(Original post by TheTechN1304)
Out. Countries like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland do fantastic economically and aren't in the EU. The UK has a bigger economy than these countries put together, so I'm more than certain that we'd be able to cope. Controlling our own borders, being able to control our own laws, not having to pay huge amounts of money to a failing institution would reap benefits. I honestly don't understand the arguments for staying in. We don't need to be in the EU to set up good trade deals with other countries. We don't need to be in the EU to be a global financial centre. We don't need to be in the EU full stop.
To play devils advocate, Poland has done fantastically on most metrics while in the EU (only real bad one for them is unemployment).
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VotreAltesse
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Rakas21)
To play devils advocate, Poland has done fantastically on most metrics while in the EU (only real bad one for them is unemployment).
That's only due to the massive jump Poland had from being obliterated by the Nazis in WW2 to being where they are now.

The UK won't have those troubles because it's already a strong force in the EU, so leaving it won't change much ... but it'll change it for the better.
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Rakas21
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#13
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(Original post by VotreAltesse)
That's only due to the massive jump Poland had from being obliterated by the Nazis in WW2 to being where they are now.

The UK won't have those troubles because it's already a strong force in the EU, so leaving it won't change much ... but it'll change it for the better.
That was certainly the initial reason but it's developed into a relatively decent mature service economy, i believe it's trying to dip its hands in financial services at the moment.

My underlying point anyway was that there is more to an economy's success than being in or out of the EU. Brazil is in recession while Mexico thrives, Poland is growing strongly while France struggles.

I worry that while leaving the EU may improve export figures, that it will be used to paper over underlying issues which are not related to the EU. The EU for example is not stopping us building houses and is not the reason no party announced a credible plan for wage growth.
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Actaeon
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#14
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#14
I'll be interested to see the debate around it, and hope both sides will try and present proper and full arguments. I'd also like to know what's going to happen to all the EU projects that don't really get talked about, like the ErasmusPlus scheme, EU funding programmes for Northern Ireland, science funding for British projects from the European Science Council, cultural support programmes... It'll be interesting to find out which of all of these we'll lose, and what the replacements are going to be if we leave.
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L i b
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#15
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#15
Is there a 'shake it all about' option?

I don't have any problem with the EU existing, but I want it to change. It's unfortunate that we don't seem to see the EU through normal political lenses in the UK. My complaints with it aren't institutional or constitutional, but political.
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HigherMinion
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#16
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#16
Wholly undemocratic with the ability to usurp British law. This is not something you can sit on the fence about unless you are being convinced by the economic scaremongering of Clegg and Co.

This whole debate is based on emotion. Why are we allowing the whitewashing of national and ethnic identities for economic gain? Also, I heard someone who works in a European Union think tank define the EU's purpose as "limiting and balancing the great powers of Europe to prevent conflict". This is yet another socialist pipedream of equality marching with moral superiority. Britain has no role in this- we are not a Marxist state.

The economic debate says something like this: all humans are equal, so why hate? The more people we have, the more businesses, the more revenue, the more money the nation has. But ask yourself who gets that money. You? Me? The Government? Tesco, McDonalds?
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Davij038
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#17
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#17
In.

I think that the benefits far ouweigh the negatives, with the negatives being the fishing policies, the extra strain on infastructure and the CAP.

Funnily enough, A lot of the reasons for staying in are presented in "Why you should vote Conservatives 2015" - for instance if we wish to access the single market, we would pay a fee (some think we could continue without paying, I am sure that brussels willmake us pay so to stop the entire thing falling) whilst continuing to abide by EU laws without a say (The Norwegian option has been condemned by Norways foreign minister as combining th worst o both worlds. Numerous Banks and businessses have reportedly made contingency plans to move to the Likes of Franklin or Dublin.

It is also worth noticeing that Cameron aims to get substantive changes via renogiations- although these may take longer to substantiate.


One thing that strikes me is the argument of sovereignty, being free to do what we want. If we really want our sovereignty back we also need to leave the UN, IMF, NATO et al too.

Funnily enough I think that if you want to tackle immigration then it should be done at a european level, stopping illegal immigration at greece and spain, before they get to our shores.
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Sky_Dream
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#18
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#18
In.
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democracyforum
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#19
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#19
(Original post by Actaeon)
I'll be interested to see the debate around it, and hope both sides will try and present proper and full arguments. I'd also like to know what's going to happen to all the EU projects that don't really get talked about, like the ErasmusPlus scheme, EU funding programmes for Northern Ireland, science funding for British projects from the European Science Council, cultural support programmes... It'll be interesting to find out which of all of these we'll lose, and what the replacements are going to be if we leave.
are you insane ??

the pros and cons have been debated every week for the last 5 years including TV debates
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gordonbennetton
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#20
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#20
Of course it's going to be an in vote by a slim majority. Britain would lose its de facto scapegoat for everything that is wrong the country if it pulled out but of curse it'll be close enough to blame fear mongering for making people vote to stay in. I ought to be a crystal ball reader.
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