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Why do some students feel like they're entitled to cheaper life? Watch

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    Apologies if this is in the wrong place - could possibly be moved to appropriate sub-forum?

    So I came across this 'petition' [/b]demanding that for university students, public transport should be made free.

    What? Why?

    Surely the main issue is 'expensive' tuition fees?

    But even then, most of us aren't even worrying about that now. We only pay them back once we're earning over blah blah blah..

    I'm from a single parent background of low income. I don't have the benefit of a rich parent and lots of money. I was the first year of the 9k fees and it didn't put me off university whatsoever because I did my research. Once I got my Student Loans (I'm grateful I even receive a damn student loan) quote, I had a look at how I would afford my rent, food, public transport. I looked at local public transport prices and routes etc and worked out how much it would all cost, and whether I would be able to afford it. Living in London would of been amazing. The beautiful, vibrant city, with so much to do that scored highly in my chosen course in the league tables, awesome nightlife etc. It would of been amazing. But I couldn't afford to live in London. I just couldn't. Ridiculously expensive rent. Public transport costs every day. Expensive food/drink.

    I had to rule that out. A real shame, yes. But I'm okay with it. Why? Because I'm not entitled to sh*t. There seems to be this real mentality that students should receive discounts left, right and center from food, to travel, to clubs, to rent, to everything.

    When I got my lecture timetable, I had a look whether it would be feasible to get a part time job at the weekends. If it wasn't feasible because of long uni hours, how would I afford to pay for life. Also, how would I maintain balance in my life? Could I maintain balance? Or would I....*gasp*..have to make some sacrifices? Like....*Louder gasps* limit going out to once every few months?

    These are things that should be done BEFORE university. If you can't afford a brand new, fancy shiny car, you wouldn't buy it. Degrees now are like products, sold by brands that are the universities. Some products and brands are better than others. But all are interestingly enough (more or less) the same price. THAT is something that needs changing, I think. I remember reading the average cost of a business student is like £1500 but they are charged 9k, but that's another thread.

    Back to my main point,

    More people from poorer backgrounds, like myself, are in unversity than ever. It's not limited to the rich elite like once upon a time anymore. Having said that, it's not our right. We are lucky in the UK to have fine institutions that we have, and to receive the financial support, even if it's not enough to cover all of your expenses, from our government. I believe education should be free, like it is, from reception - A levels. After that, you're on your own. Why should it be any other way? Why should tax payers subsidise my life just so I can get a degree? What if I choose to not work after and just travel for the rest of my life? Or not use my degree at all to contribute to the world?

    It seems like we want our cake and eat it. If you can't afford university, you should of worked that out before hand, like I did. Take some years out, work, pay some taxes, and then save up to go. Why should you be handed the money so you can go to university on your terms, when you want, how you want etc. If it means that much to you, work for it ffs. Save up. Do something. Don't just turn up to university and then a year later realize transport is too much and then demand it should be free. This applies to all degrees. From the nurses who work long, hard hours to then not receive much money at the end, to the arts/fashion degrees who have to work hard and pay loads for studio hire, to degrees like mine, just horribly difficult and long uni hours. We all chose to study what we study. If we can't afford it, then we should save up so that we can.

    Sorry for the incoherent thread, I'm just rambling.

    What do you guys think? I'm open minded so if somebody can present a good arguement I'd be more than happy to change my approach to this?

    EDIT: I'm not sure if the link at the beginning of the thread is working.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Apologies if this is in the wrong place - could possibly be moved to appropriate sub-forum?

    So I came across this 'petition' [/b]demanding that for university students, public transport should be made free.

    What? Why?

    Surely the main issue is 'expensive' tuition fees?

    But even then, most of us aren't even worrying about that now. We only pay them back once we're earning over blah blah blah..

    I'm from a single parent background of low income. I don't have the benefit of a rich parent and lots of money. I was the first year of the 9k fees and it didn't put me off university whatsoever because I did my research. Once I got my Student Loans (I'm grateful I even receive a damn student loan) quote, I had a look at how I would afford my rent, food, public transport. I looked at local public transport prices and routes etc and worked out how much it would all cost, and whether I would be able to afford it. Living in London would of been amazing. The beautiful, vibrant city, with so much to do that scored highly in my chosen course in the league tables, awesome nightlife etc. It would of been amazing. But I couldn't afford to live in London. I just couldn't. Ridiculously expensive rent. Public transport costs every day. Expensive food/drink.

    I had to rule that out. A real shame, yes. But I'm okay with it. Why? Because I'm not entitled to sh*t. There seems to be this real mentality that students should receive discounts left, right and center from food, to travel, to clubs, to rent, to everything.

    When I got my lecture timetable, I had a look whether it would be feasible to get a part time job at the weekends. If it wasn't feasible because of long uni hours, how would I afford to pay for life. Also, how would I maintain balance in my life? Could I maintain balance? Or would I....*gasp*..have to make some sacrifices? Like....*Louder gasps* limit going out to once every few months?

    These are things that should be done BEFORE university. If you can't afford a brand new, fancy shiny car, you wouldn't buy it. Degrees now are like products, sold by brands that are the universities. Some products and brands are better than others. But all are interestingly enough (more or less) the same price. THAT is something that needs changing, I think. I remember reading the average cost of a business student is like £1500 but they are charged 9k, but that's another thread.

    Back to my main point,

    More people from poorer backgrounds, like myself, are in unversity than ever. It's not limited to the rich elite like once upon a time anymore. Having said that, it's not our right. We are lucky in the UK to have fine institutions that we have, and to receive the financial support, even if it's not enough to cover all of your expenses, from our government. I believe education should be free, like it is, from reception - A levels. After that, you're on your own. Why should it be any other way? Why should tax payers subsidise my life just so I can get a degree? What if I choose to not work after and just travel for the rest of my life? Or not use my degree at all to contribute to the world?

    It seems like we want our cake and eat it. If you can't afford university, you should of worked that out before hand, like I did. Take some years out, work, pay some taxes, and then save up to go. Why should you be handed the money so you can go to university on your terms, when you want, how you want etc. If it means that much to you, work for it ffs. Save up. Do something. Don't just turn up to university and then a year later realize transport is too much and then demand it should be free. This applies to all degrees. From the nurses who work long, hard hours to then not receive much money at the end, to the arts/fashion degrees who have to work hard and pay loads for studio hire, to degrees like mine, just horribly difficult and long uni hours. We all chose to study what we study. If we can't afford it, then we should save up so that we can.

    Sorry for the incoherent thread, I'm just rambling.

    What do you guys think? I'm open minded so if somebody can present a good arguement I'd be more than happy to change my approach to this?

    EDIT: I'm not sure if the link at the beginning of the thread is working.
    I agree with you. Nothing can come for 'free' its got to be paid for somehow and I think the loans system is a good compromise.
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    Welcome to the arrogance and entitlement of the working class.

    Or are we calling it socialism now? I forget.
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    I do t see why students shouldn't get what pensioners get given how pensioners are pretty much the most well off in society these days, or at least will be soon once our parents become pension age... So about 5 years in my case.
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    I 100% agree. Not to mention international fees cost way more and they Dont get any support at all. A relative of mine is paying next to £18,000 a year which she and her parents have to dig for to pay. Ours is only £9000 a year that we don't even have to cough up until we are earning a reasonable salary.

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    (Original post by redferry)
    I do t see why students shouldn't get what pensioners get given how pensioners are pretty much the most well off in society these days, or at least will be soon once our parents become pension age... So about 5 years in my case.
    Pensioners, especially OAPs are not the most well off in society. Some are a very lonely demographic, and some can barely afford heating in the winters.

    Pensioners and students are not the same. Pensioners have worked for many years, paid many thousands in taxes and lived through multiple forms of government. They have put up with a lot of BS in the form of labour/conservative governments and deserve any help they receive. The same cannot be said for students.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Pensioners, especially OAPs are not the most well off in society. Some are a very lonely demographic, and some can barely afford heating in the winters.

    Pensioners and students are not the same. Pensioners have worked for many years, paid many thousands in taxes and lived through multiple forms of government. They have put up with a lot of BS in the form of labour/conservative governments and deserve any help they receive. The same cannot be said for students.
    Well why not !dams test it then rather than blanket applying it? Our parents generation will be the first generation better PFF than the next, and they're going to get free public transport... Its not exactly fair.

    Ugh stop idolising old people, at this stage most of them didn't even live through the war, they massoveley benefitted off boom years, cheap property and buy to let, and now they are ****ting on the rest of us by voting in their own self interests. Not to mention most of them are racist. Like, my own gran is racist and she used to be a social worker for Christ sake! My friends grandparents are like the racisteat people ever...
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Well why not !dams test it then rather than blanket applying it? Our parents generation will be the first generation better PFF than the next, and they're going to get free public transport... Its not exactly fair.

    Ugh stop idolising old people, at this stage most of them didn't even live through the war, they massoveley benefitted off boom years, cheap property and buy to let, and now they are ****ting on the rest of us by voting in their own self interests. Not to mention most of them are racist. Like, my own gran is racist and she used to be a social worker for Christ sake! My friends grandparents are like the racisteat people ever...
    My father qualifies for free public transport. Or at least heavily discounted train fares. Big deal. He will retire soon and then won't have to commute to work every day anyway, so he's hardly saving much money anyway. He has worked for one company for more than 40 years. Hes paid his dues. Hes paid his taxes. I'm not idolising old people haha? I am just saying they hardly compare to students.

    How have students contributed to the same extent to justify receiving free public transport?

    And to say most old people are racist is just silly. I won't bother addressing that.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Ugh stop idolising old people, at this stage most of them didn't even live through the war, they massoveley benefitted off boom years, cheap property and buy to let, and now they are ****ting on the rest of us by voting in their own self interests. Not to mention most of them are racist. Like, my own gran is racist and she used to be a social worker for Christ sake! My friends grandparents are like the racisteat people ever...
    They've also been paying into the pot for 40+ years, whilst current students have paid in precisely nothing.

    And of course current policies are going to favour the grey vote because their generation actually votes, unlike the younger one that can't be arsed. If the 18-30 vote matched the over 65 vote the political landscape would be different. Don't blame politicians for politicking.

    Oh, your friend's grandparents? Well they absolutely must be indicative of the millions out there, clearly. Or Lord Sugar. He's in that bracket. He's worth £800m so clearly, using your logic, all pensioners are nearly billionaires.

    It's not fair? Grow the **** up.
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    Well perhaps they should do something to curb the ridiculous price of car insurance. It's not as if busses are actually reliable, frequent, or actually useful at all. I have to get two busses just to get to uni, the first one is usually late, sometimes up to half an hour, and I'm always missing my connecting busses. I have to leave nearly two hours early just to get to lectures on time, even though uni is only half an hour away by car. Then if it's raining I'm going to spend my day soaking wet because there's no bus shelter on my stop, or because I'll have to walk a while to get to it. I would buy a car, but I just can't afford it, just because of the ridiculous price of insurance. Perhaps people wouldn't complain so much about bus fairs if the busses actually turned up on time. At the moment, some days I spend more time travelling to uni by bus than I actually do at uni, especially with rubbish timetabling with 2 hours worth of lectures in some days. Why can't they include the minimum legal level of cover in the road tax (and increase the price of it SLIGHTLY), and make everyone pay the same. After all, if your that useless behind the wheel that you should genuinely be paying more, and you are genuinely a danger to other road users, then perhaps the government should deal with that in other ways, and if they were footing the bill for all the insurance claims they'd have some inscentive to do it.
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    (Original post by Associativity)
    Well perhaps they should do something to curb the ridiculous price of car insurance. It's not as if busses are actually reliable, frequent, or actually useful at all. I have to get two busses just to get to uni, the first one is usually late, sometimes up to half an hour, and I'm always missing my connecting busses. I have to leave nearly two hours early just to get to lectures on time, even though uni is only half an hour away by car. Then if it's raining I'm going to spend my day soaking wet because there's no bus shelter on my stop, or because I'll have to walk a while to get to it. I would buy a car, but I just can't afford it, just because of the ridiculous price of insurance. Perhaps people wouldn't complain so much about bus fairs if the busses actually turned up on time. At the moment, some days I spend more time travelling to uni by bus than I actually do at uni, especially with rubbish timetabling with 2 hours worth of lectures in some days. Why can't they include the minimum legal level of cover in the road tax (and increase the price of it SLIGHTLY), and make everyone pay the same. After all, if your that useless behind the wheel that you should genuinely be paying more, and you are genuinely a danger to other road users, then perhaps the government should deal with that in other ways, and if they were footing the bill for all the insurance claims they'd have some inscentive to do it.
    You are complaining about the standard of public transport. That is entirely different to what I am complaining about.

    Why don't you invest in a cycle? Cheaper than 3 years of bus pass and better for the environment. Probably take you an hour to cycle, maybe quicker if there are dedicated cycle routes that cut through, such as like at my university. Takes 15 mins by bus (does not include walking to and from the bus stop) and only 10 mins to cycle. That way, you're in control of what time you get to uni. Oh, and you'll get to uni very wet if it's raining, but by the sounds of it you're waiting in the rain anyway....
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    Hmm i see what you mean. I was thinking about going for a degree next year but after thinking things through, looking at all the time and costs which would be required i ended up deciding to just get another few A-levels and other quantification's under my belt instead.

    Really degrees aren't everything and so long as you have some good A-levels, (unless you're planning on going into a specialised field) You should still be able to get a job in most places.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Apologies if this is in the wrong place - could possibly be moved to appropriate sub-forum?

    So I came across this 'petition' [/b]demanding that for university students, public transport should be made free.

    What? Why?

    Surely the main issue is 'expensive' tuition fees?

    But even then, most of us aren't even worrying about that now. We only pay them back once we're earning over blah blah blah..

    I'm from a single parent background of low income. I don't have the benefit of a rich parent and lots of money. I was the first year of the 9k fees and it didn't put me off university whatsoever because I did my research. Once I got my Student Loans (I'm grateful I even receive a damn student loan) quote, I had a look at how I would afford my rent, food, public transport. I looked at local public transport prices and routes etc and worked out how much it would all cost, and whether I would be able to afford it. Living in London would of been amazing. The beautiful, vibrant city, with so much to do that scored highly in my chosen course in the league tables, awesome nightlife etc. It would of been amazing. But I couldn't afford to live in London. I just couldn't. Ridiculously expensive rent. Public transport costs every day. Expensive food/drink.

    I had to rule that out. A real shame, yes. But I'm okay with it. Why? Because I'm not entitled to sh*t. There seems to be this real mentality that students should receive discounts left, right and center from food, to travel, to clubs, to rent, to everything.

    When I got my lecture timetable, I had a look whether it would be feasible to get a part time job at the weekends. If it wasn't feasible because of long uni hours, how would I afford to pay for life. Also, how would I maintain balance in my life? Could I maintain balance? Or would I....*gasp*..have to make some sacrifices? Like....*Louder gasps* limit going out to once every few months?

    These are things that should be done BEFORE university. If you can't afford a brand new, fancy shiny car, you wouldn't buy it. Degrees now are like products, sold by brands that are the universities. Some products and brands are better than others. But all are interestingly enough (more or less) the same price. THAT is something that needs changing, I think. I remember reading the average cost of a business student is like £1500 but they are charged 9k, but that's another thread.

    Back to my main point,

    More people from poorer backgrounds, like myself, are in unversity than ever. It's not limited to the rich elite like once upon a time anymore. Having said that, it's not our right. We are lucky in the UK to have fine institutions that we have, and to receive the financial support, even if it's not enough to cover all of your expenses, from our government. I believe education should be free, like it is, from reception - A levels. After that, you're on your own. Why should it be any other way? Why should tax payers subsidise my life just so I can get a degree? What if I choose to not work after and just travel for the rest of my life? Or not use my degree at all to contribute to the world?

    It seems like we want our cake and eat it. If you can't afford university, you should of worked that out before hand, like I did. Take some years out, work, pay some taxes, and then save up to go. Why should you be handed the money so you can go to university on your terms, when you want, how you want etc. If it means that much to you, work for it ffs. Save up. Do something. Don't just turn up to university and then a year later realize transport is too much and then demand it should be free. This applies to all degrees. From the nurses who work long, hard hours to then not receive much money at the end, to the arts/fashion degrees who have to work hard and pay loads for studio hire, to degrees like mine, just horribly difficult and long uni hours. We all chose to study what we study. If we can't afford it, then we should save up so that we can.

    Sorry for the incoherent thread, I'm just rambling.

    What do you guys think? I'm open minded so if somebody can present a good arguement I'd be more than happy to change my approach to this?

    EDIT: I'm not sure if the link at the beginning of the thread is working.
    Hi

    I'm in the same situation with you, coming from a working class, single parent household, maybe too low for UK standards since i'm a EU student. I also agree that education should be free, but i believe university education should be included. Where i mostly disagree is where you write

    More people from poorer backgrounds, like myself, are in unversity than ever. It's not limited to the rich elite like once upon a time anymore. Having said that, it's not our right.

    My personal opinion is that education is-and if it's not, it should be-our right. I believe that everyone should be given the chance to go to uni if they want to and i'm glad this can happen in the UK regardless of the tuition fee loan. I mean, at least someone from the UK and the EU can get a degree done without having to pay the tuition fee loan at once. I agree on what you're saying about people from poorer backgrounds being able to attend uni now, this is amazing, there's also help available with maintenance loans and grants for UK students

    But what about international students? The fees they have to pay are extravagant and as far as i'm aware there's no financial help for them, unless they get a scholarship.
    As for the tuition fee loan, i merely agree because no matter how much it costs you will repay it only after you earn a certain amount of money after graduating. However, what if someone wants to do a second degree or a postgraduate? In Germany for example, undergraduates and postgraduates are for free and in France the cost is really low.
    Then again, one could say (this applies both to the international fees and people wanting to do a second degree) that
    -they should finance it themselves
    -that the government has no obligation to help you completing it (it had after all helped you in your first one)
    -that they're not obliged to financially help everyone who attends uni and -that each person should be responsible for their own management of money, it is afterall their choice to attend university.
    That it seems that people want their cake and eat it too as you said

    While i have thought about this many times and do appreciate this point of view, because even if i disagree it has a basis and arguments to back it up, i stand by what i wrote earlier, that i believe in free education, meaning that students shouldn't pay tuition fees no matter where they come from and whether they complete their first or fourth degree.

    Other than that, i'm happy you did go to university despite the financial difficulties and that you're aware of how grateful one should feel for being able to attend uni. It's wise and mature of you that you had made a plan beforehand-balancing university and part-time work, covering your everyday expenses etc.

    It's always good to listen to different points of view and i enjoyed reading your post even if i don't completely agree

    All the best
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    (Original post by anastas)
    Hi

    I'm in the same situation with you, coming from a working class, single parent household, maybe too low for UK standards since i'm a EU student. I also agree that education should be free, but i believe university education should be included. Where i mostly disagree is where you write

    More people from poorer backgrounds, like myself, are in unversity than ever. It's not limited to the rich elite like once upon a time anymore. Having said that, it's not our right.

    My personal opinion is that education is-and if it's not, it should be-our right. I believe that everyone should be given the chance to go to uni if they want to and i'm glad this can happen in the UK regardless of the tuition fee loan. I mean, at least someone from the UK and the EU can get a degree done without having to pay the tuition fee loan at once. I agree on what you're saying about people from poorer backgrounds being able to attend uni now, this is amazing, there's also help available with maintenance loans and grants for UK students

    But what about international students? The fees they have to pay are extravagant and as far as i'm aware there's no financial help for them, unless they get a scholarship.
    As for the tuition fee loan, i merely agree because no matter how much it costs you will repay it only after you earn a certain amount of money after graduating. However, what if someone wants to do a second degree or a postgraduate? In Germany for example, undergraduates and postgraduates are for free and in France the cost is really low.
    Then again, one could say (this applies both to the international fees and people wanting to do a second degree) that
    -they should finance it themselves
    -that the government has no obligation to help you completing it (it had after all helped you in your first one)
    -that they're not obliged to financially help everyone who attends uni and -that each person should be responsible for their own management of money, it is afterall their choice to attend university.
    That it seems that people want their cake and eat it too as you said

    While i have thought about this many times and do appreciate this point of view, because even if i disagree it has a basis and arguments to back it up, i stand by what i wrote earlier, that i believe in free education, meaning that students shouldn't pay tuition fees no matter where they come from and whether they complete their first or fourth degree.

    Other than that, i'm happy you did go to university despite the financial difficulties and that you're aware of how grateful one should feel for being able to attend uni. It's wise and mature of you that you had made a plan beforehand-balancing university and part-time work, covering your everyday expenses etc.

    It's always good to listen to different points of view and i enjoyed reading your post even if i don't completely agree

    All the best
    Thank you for your post.

    In the UK, you are only entitled to 4 years of student finance from The Student Loans Company. This does not include Masters level qualifications (MEng is different, however). You cannot do multiple degrees. Medicine may have different rules, I'm not sure.

    I don't know much about funding for international students. I'm not too sure why it costs so much for them to study here. Could be something to do with the fact that international students don't often stay in the country and work long term after graduation?

    I'm glad you believe education should be free. But I'd like to know why you think it should be free.


    With regards to paying off the tuition fee loan, you don't necessarily have to pay it back. If you never earn more than 21k a year, under the current system, you won't pay a penny back. People like me might just end up avoiding responsibility..run away from life and end up travelling forever
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Thank you for your post.

    In the UK, you are only entitled to 4 years of student finance from The Student Loans Company. This does not include Masters level qualifications (MEng is different, however). You cannot do multiple degrees. Medicine may have different rules, I'm not sure.

    I don't know much about funding for international students. I'm not too sure why it costs so much for them to study here. Could be something to do with the fact that international students don't often stay in the country and work long term after graduation?

    I'm glad you believe education should be free. But I'd like to know why you think it should be free.


    With regards to paying off the tuition fee loan, you don't necessarily have to pay it back. If you never earn more than 21k a year, under the current system, you won't pay a penny back. People like me might just end up avoiding responsibility..run away from life and end up travelling forever
    Hmm, i have no idea why fees for international students are so high either!

    I believe education should be free because when it's public-from the people for the people- it can benefit everyone. It can create a more well structured society with more well-rounded and critically thinking people. I believe everyone-regardless of their background- should have chances to attend university even if they already have a degree or not. In the end, university education could be viewed more as a chance of building your character and enriching yourself than getting a degree for the sake of it. With all that you've learnt you will be able to contribute to society positively and appreciate learning even more, because it will be available for everyone. Now, unless you have enough money to finance a second degree yourself, you are restricted from higher education because of lack of money. While education, from my point of view, shouldn't have limitations and restrictions, like go to university once and then that's it. If someone wishes, they could get formal education as many times they'd like without worrying about finances. Oh god, i hope that makes sense

    The way the system is like in the UK now is great on one hand because you can complete your degree without having to pay all the money beforehand (and not pay it at all if you don't earn over 21.000 pounds later on). But on the other hand, why should the fees be that high or why should fees exist at first place? If they're absolutely necessary, i think it would have been much better if they had least stayed at 1.000 pounds as when first introduced. Comparing the UK fees with the rest of Europe, they are outrageously high. I haven't understood why they cost so much, even if UK and EU students are entitled to the student loan. I'm sorry if i'm writing it all in one breath, i would appreciate it if you could explain to me why you think the cost is that much

    Haha that's cool Seriously though, travelling is one of the best things there are, you'll have an amazing time travelling (and you'll get away with the repayment too haha )
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    (Original post by anastas)
    Hmm, i have no idea why fees for international students are so high either!

    I believe education should be free because when it's public-from the people for the people- it can benefit everyone. It can create a more well structured society with more well-rounded and critically thinking people. I believe everyone-regardless of their background- should have chances to attend university even if they already have a degree or not. In the end, university education could be viewed more as a chance of building your character and enriching yourself than getting a degree for the sake of it. With all that you've learnt you will be able to contribute to society positively and appreciate learning even more, because it will be available for everyone. Now, unless you have enough money to finance a second degree yourself, you are restricted from higher education because of lack of money. While education, from my point of view, shouldn't have limitations and restrictions, like go to university once and then that's it. If someone wishes, they could get formal education as many times they'd like without worrying about finances. Oh god, i hope that makes sense

    The way the system is like in the UK now is great on one hand because you can complete your degree without having to pay all the money beforehand (and not pay it at all if you don't earn over 21.000 pounds later on). But on the other hand, why should the fees be that high or why should fees exist at first place? If they're absolutely necessary, i think it would have been much better if they had least stayed at 1.000 pounds as when first introduced. Comparing the UK fees with the rest of Europe, they are outrageously high. I haven't understood why they cost so much, even if UK and EU students are entitled to the student loan. I'm sorry if i'm writing it all in one breath, i would appreciate it if you could explain to me why you think the cost is that much

    Haha that's cool Seriously though, travelling is one of the best things there are, you'll have an amazing time travelling (and you'll get away with the repayment too haha )

    I am already very well travelled

    The problem is, if university education is free, that means the taxpayer is paying for it. Some people will make the active decision to not attend university. Why is it then fair for them to have to fund other people?

    In theory, it would be lovely to assume that every graduate comes out of university with a mature perspective on life; enriched from their 3 years of independent studies away from home. But that doesn't happen. You get students that do the very bare minimum, get their 2:1, have no work experience and have nothing to contribute. To me, a degree is a collection of modules that make up credits that make up a piece of paper at the end of 3 years. University is what you make of it. There are plenty of enrichment opportunities available, but many students are too lazy to grasp them. And that's fine with me. Because they are paying to be there. An education system where the tax payer pays for people to attend university wouldn't quite work in the UK in my opinion. The amount of people that attend would drastically rise, putting immense pressure on universities. There would be a rise of 'open university' type institutions, and the overall worthyness of a degree would drop. It is already very difficult for graduates to get a job. A degree is just a tick in the box
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Apologies if this is in the wrong place - could possibly be moved to appropriate sub-forum?

    So I came across this 'petition' [/b]demanding that for university students, public transport should be made free.

    What? Why?

    Surely the main issue is 'expensive' tuition fees?
    The tuition fees are always covered by the tuition fee loan (unless you've previously completed a degree, or a few other reasons why you might not get them - but a school leaver will always be covered). This means that there is no reason to worry about covering that cost. However, most Uni students have to afford to pay for food, rent, bills, travel and everything else out of a fairly low amount of money.

    This is why it is a struggle sometimes, because your maintenance loan may not be enough to cover everything.



    (Original post by JD1lla)
    But even then, most of us aren't even worrying about that now. We only pay them back once we're earning over blah blah blah..

    I'm from a single parent background of low income. I don't have the benefit of a rich parent and lots of money. I was the first year of the 9k fees and it didn't put me off university whatsoever because I did my research. Once I got my Student Loans (I'm grateful I even receive a damn student loan) quote, I had a look at how I would afford my rent, food, public transport. I looked at local public transport prices and routes etc and worked out how much it would all cost, and whether I would be able to afford it. Living in London would of been amazing. The beautiful, vibrant city, with so much to do that scored highly in my chosen course in the league tables, awesome nightlife etc. It would of been amazing. But I couldn't afford to live in London. I just couldn't. Ridiculously expensive rent. Public transport costs every day. Expensive food/drink.

    I had to rule that out. A real shame, yes. But I'm okay with it. Why? Because I'm not entitled to sh*t. There seems to be this real mentality that students should receive discounts left, right and center from food, to travel, to clubs, to rent, to everything.
    Maintenance loan is based on your parents/household income. Personally, my parents have a fairly high income, but they never gave me any of it, so while I would not be entitled to a high maintenance loan (at some places it was £50 a month), they would also not support me. This is why even on a high income it can become very difficult to afford anything.

    Now I have moved out I still have to consider the incomes of those living with me, but I don't get financial support, which again prevents me from getting a high maintenance loan.

    As a result of this I have had to self fund my access courses, and have to scramble about to scrape together money for my rent and bills. But it was only when I moved away that I could even consider completing a Uni course.

    You have a low income household, therefore you are entitled to much more money. This actually makes it far less stressful, especially when considering how you will travel and pay bills.

    (Original post by JD1lla)
    When I got my lecture timetable, I had a look whether it would be feasible to get a part time job at the weekends. If it wasn't feasible because of long uni hours, how would I afford to pay for life. Also, how would I maintain balance in my life? Could I maintain balance? Or would I....*gasp*..have to make some sacrifices? Like....*Louder gasps* limit going out to once every few months?

    These are things that should be done BEFORE university. If you can't afford a brand new, fancy shiny car, you wouldn't buy it. Degrees now are like products, sold by brands that are the universities. Some products and brands are better than others. But all are interestingly enough (more or less) the same price. THAT is something that needs changing, I think. I remember reading the average cost of a business student is like £1500 but they are charged 9k, but that's another thread.
    The only way for me to afford Uni is to study part time while juggling full time work, and eventually becoming a full time student, while I have no choice but to still have a job. I am lucky in that some people around me will actually support me through the period where I go with a much lower paid job, so that I can continue to have a roof over my head.

    Having something a little cheaper, like travel or food or anything would make life so much easier. There are people in many different situations - they're not all whining, some genuinely have struggles.

    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Back to my main point,

    More people from poorer backgrounds, like myself, are in unversity than ever. It's not limited to the rich elite like once upon a time anymore. Having said that, it's not our right. We are lucky in the UK to have fine institutions that we have, and to receive the financial support, even if it's not enough to cover all of your expenses, from our government. I believe education should be free, like it is, from reception - A levels. After that, you're on your own. Why should it be any other way? Why should tax payers subsidise my life just so I can get a degree? What if I choose to not work after and just travel for the rest of my life? Or not use my degree at all to contribute to the world?



    It seems like we want our cake and eat it. If you can't afford university, you should of worked that out before hand, like I did. Take some years out, work, pay some taxes, and then save up to go. Why should you be handed the money so you can go to university on your terms, when you want, how you want etc. If it means that much to you, work for it ffs. Save up. Do something. Don't just turn up to university and then a year later realize transport is too much and then demand it should be free. This applies to all degrees. From the nurses who work long, hard hours to then not receive much money at the end, to the arts/fashion degrees who have to work hard and pay loads for studio hire, to degrees like mine, just horribly difficult and long uni hours. We all chose to study what we study. If we can't afford it, then we should save up so that we can.

    Sorry for the incoherent thread, I'm just rambling.

    What do you guys think? I'm open minded so if somebody can present a good arguement I'd be more than happy to change my approach to this?

    EDIT: I'm not sure if the link at the beginning of the thread is working.
    Have kind of answered this in the above, and I'll just be repeating myself really.
 
 
 
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