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IDS reappointed as Work and Pensions Secretary Watch

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    IDS (and a worrying proportion of Tory voters) love the thought of disabled people being driven to suicide over benefit sanctions and the like.

    Also a serial liar, lied on his CV to get into the Tory party etc. A man without principles and fuelled by sadism, living like a king in his literal castle, claiming on the state for his breakfasts and underwear whilst in one of the highest positions of government, lecturing the poor masses for having the cheek of being desperate and vulnerable.

    Why would anybody back this man? Is sadism and the idea of stopping the terminally ill and the disabled from getting 'something for nothing' at all costs that powerful?
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    Not a surprise, it's ideological rather than economic.

    For example, the government gives away more in foreign aid every year than it received from the one-off sell off of Royal Mail. It was a minuscule return but they did it because that's what Tories do.

    Tories gonna Tory.
    And Labour in that case.
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    I can't work out if IDS is just incompetent and doesn't realise the harm his "reforms" are doing to disabled and vulnerable people on the ground.... of if he is some kind of deluded ideologically driven psychopath that just doesn't care. I find it quite scary the absolute whoppers he is allowed to tell on TV and get away with unchallenged - it really is a case of if you keep repeating enormous lies often enough people will believe it.

    I don't consider myself particularly 'lefty' but I feel the attacks on ESA/PIP/JSA claimants are particularly vile because everyone accepts the official figures show very low level of fraud. However much of the country has bought into the false narrative of vast numbers living a life of luxury on benefits.

    I hear getting rid of carers allowance is now one of the options on the table as well. Clearly they don't realise what a small fortune unpaid carers safe society as a whole?
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    (Original post by BigV)
    I can't work out if IDS is just incompetent and doesn't realise the harm his "reforms" are doing to disabled and vulnerable people on the ground.... of if he is some kind of deluded ideologically driven psychopath that just doesn't care. I find it quite scary the absolute whoppers he is allowed to tell on TV and get away with unchallenged - it really is a case of if you keep repeating enormous lies often enough people will believe it.

    I don't consider myself particularly 'lefty' but I feel the attacks on ESA/PIP/JSA claimants are particularly vile because everyone accepts the official figures show very low level of fraud. However much of the country has bought into the false narrative of vast numbers living a life of luxury on benefits.

    I hear getting rid of carers allowance is now one of the options on the table as well. Clearly they don't realise what a small fortune unpaid carers safe society as a whole?
    Good post, it shouldn't even be a case of whether you're left wing or right wing, surely anyone who isn't entirely devoid of empathy can see there's a problem in forcing genuinely unfit people into work and driving people to suicide when the cost of this particular area of governmental expenditure is probably very small in the grand scheme of things.

    In 2010, David Cameron himself said “The test of a good society is how do you protect the poorest, the most vulnerable, the elderly, the frail.", you couldn't make it up could you :facepalm:
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I do know something about the ESA system.

    There are hundreds of thousands of people with the same conditions as many of those claiming ESA (and particularly those who have still not yet been reassessed from Incapacity Benefit) in work.

    When that is raised, the response that is usually given is that "there are no jobs". Apart from that being patently untrue, we pay JSA to people who are able to work but can't find work. If people can work thy should not be receiving ESA.

    The ESA system isn't perfect by any means. It was created with an ambiguity at its heart which needs to be eliminated.

    There are two groups; the Support Group and the Work Related Activity Group. The government suggests that people in the WRAG should be getting better and into work, hence they should be doing work related activity and the non-means tested benefit is time limited. People in the Support Group have chronic conditions and are not to be expected to work.

    However the Work Capability Assessment fails to draw that distinction. The WCA largely distinguishes between the seriousness of conditions rather than whether they are chronic. A person with mild emphysema might be in the WRAG; but he isn't going to get better. If he can work now, he should be on JSA and if he can't work now, he ought to be in the Support Group. If someone who is wheelchair bound loses their employment, they will qualify for the Support Group. Why? They are clearly employable.
    Hi nulli tertius
    thanks replying to my previous response.I am fully aware of the various disability benefits as well as the assessment system nulli tertius.
    My point i was making there is a lot of disabled people out there,who will have their particular disability benefits cut or actually stopped this is after, the disabled individual has undertake a Work capability assessment for ESA.

    That ESA assessment is mainly based on a point scoring system,and if they don't score a maximum of 15 points,which is the threshold to get ESA,they are therefore told you can rather appeal against the decision of not obtaining ESA, or you better reapply again when your disability is more severe or even apply again when you have another health condition that wasn't there when you applied for ESA or was assessed for it.
    The Esa assessment procedure is a very inaccurate way to assess disabled people.(I should have said its called a Work capability assessment)If you fail this WCA then as far as the DWP is concerned you are now able to work and no longer have a inability to work simply because your disability gives you the right not to work.You are also classed as being able bodied in a way.

    In the meantime they have to still support themselves so they get told to apply for job seekers allowance as they are now fit for work and should be able to hold down some sort of job.However what IDS and the Prime Minster seems to forget is that not everyone who is on benefits is lazy,workshy or a benefit scrounger. Some on benefits like the disabled need help and support and not told they disability has somewhat disappeared and now they are able to work.Only a small majority of disabled people will receive ESA and will fall into rather the support or work category of ESA.The rest who don't pass WCA will be expected to work despite the fact they might be too unwell to work or even unfit to do so.

    The WCA is a very inaccurate and very flawed assessment to assess disabled people and those who carry out the assessment procedure have no understanding about disabilities.Only the disabled people themselves know how their particular disability impacts on their lives.
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    (Original post by BigV)
    I can't work out if IDS is just incompetent and doesn't realise the harm his "reforms" are doing to disabled and vulnerable people on the ground.... of if he is some kind of deluded ideologically driven psychopath that just doesn't care. I find it quite scary the absolute whoppers he is allowed to tell on TV and get away with unchallenged - it really is a case of if you keep repeating enormous lies often enough people will believe it.

    I don't consider myself particularly 'lefty' but I feel the attacks on ESA/PIP/JSA claimants are particularly vile because everyone accepts the official figures show very low level of fraud. However much of the country has bought into the false narrative of vast numbers living a life of luxury on benefits.

    I hear getting rid of carers allowance is now one of the options on the table as well. Clearly they don't realise what a small fortune unpaid carers safe society as a whole?
    IDS hasn't got any clue about how this welfare reform will greatly affect those in society who are the most vulnerable.
    I do understand that as a government they have to stop those on benefits who arnt genuine and are simply faking it however besides these types of fraudsters out there,there are those who are disabled who relay on certain types of benefits.


    I also heared that they thinking of taxing some disability benefits such as PIP.I know that disability Living allowance was never taxable.

    I have some idea of where this 12 Billion welfare cuts are going to be made over the next 5 years of a conservative government.The disabled will be i am sure worse off than what they have been in the past.But as far as IDS and the prime minster is concerned they have saved money.They wont bother about the actual impact it will be having on the most vulnerable in society BigV
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    Never ****ing write in comic sans in one of my threads.
    i deeply apologise Lady Comstock for my oversight and never will write in comic sans every again,especially in any of your threads
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    (Original post by BigV)
    I can't work out if IDS is just incompetent and doesn't realise the harm his "reforms" are doing to disabled and vulnerable people on the ground.... of if he is some kind of deluded ideologically driven psychopath that just doesn't care. I find it quite scary the absolute whoppers he is allowed to tell on TV and get away with unchallenged - it really is a case of if you keep repeating enormous lies often enough people will believe it.

    I don't consider myself particularly 'lefty' but I feel the attacks on ESA/PIP/JSA claimants are particularly vile because everyone accepts the official figures show very low level of fraud. However much of the country has bought into the false narrative of vast numbers living a life of luxury on benefits.

    I hear getting rid of carers allowance is now one of the options on the table as well. Clearly they don't realise what a small fortune unpaid carers safe society as a whole?
    Spoiler:
    Show


    Perhaps this video will help you along in reaching your conclusion.

    As I said, the man absolutely loves it.
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    (Original post by wizardtop)
    IDS hasn't got any clue about how this welfare reform will greatly affect those in society who are the most vulnerable.
    I do understand that as a government they have to stop those on benefits who arnt genuine and are simply faking it however besides these types of fraudsters out there,there are those who are disabled who relay on certain types of benefits.


    I also heared that they thinking of taxing some disability benefits such as PIP.I know that disability Living allowance was never taxable.

    I have some idea of where this 12 Billion welfare cuts are going to be made over the next 5 years of a conservative government.The disabled will be i am sure worse off than what they have been in the past.But as far as IDS and the prime minster is concerned they have saved money.They wont bother about the actual impact it will be having on the most vulnerable in society BigV
    Main good thing is that they will be stopping child benefit after the second child.
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    (Original post by miscounted_time)
    Yes, but IDS has the quite the penchant for picking on the sick and disabled. I understand they are to bear the brunt of the cuts yet again with PIP being made taxable and the suicide safety net being removed etc.
    That's a horrible accusation and simply not true.

    As for making PIP taxable - that's not stated government policy, but there is a credible argument for it. PIP is not a means-tested benefit: it goes to the richest as well as the poorest.

    PIP is designed to pay for the extra costs incurred by disabled people. But ultimately the position you are advocating pays the same to the wealthy - who do not need it - at a cost to the poor. Given there are limits on what the government can spend, we are left with a question of priorities: do we prioritise the poorest PIP recipients, who will not be taxed anyway, or do we maintain a position which means the well-off get more money?
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    (Original post by wizardtop)
    Hi nulli tertius
    thanks replying to my previous response.I am fully aware of the various disability benefits as well as the assessment system nulli tertius.
    My point i was making there is a lot of disabled people out there,who will have their particular disability benefits cut or actually stopped this is after, the disabled individual has undertake a Work capability assessment for ESA.
    ESA isn't there to adjust for the cost of disability, it is a benefit for when you can't work. Most disabled people can work and want to work. Some have fluctuating needs, and could be unfit to work at some point and fit to work at another.

    The Esa assessment procedure is a very inaccurate way to assess disabled people.(I should have said its called a Work capability assessment)If you fail this WCA then as far as the DWP is concerned you are now able to work and no longer have a inability to work simply because your disability gives you the right not to work.You are also classed as being able bodied in a way.
    One hundred times no. Being disabled is not a bar to employment. Employers have a duty to provide reasonable adaptations for disabled employees and schemes like Access to Work and state-owned Remploy's employment services are there to help them get into work in the first place. That does not mean you are able-bodied, it means that additional costs of disability adaptation fall elsewhere.

    The WCA is a good measure of assessing capability to work - and it is getting better. It has been independently reviewed every year, and even benchmarked against an alternative assessment formed by disability charities.

    Some on benefits like the disabled need help and support and not told they disability has somewhat disappeared and now they are able to work.Only a small majority of disabled people will receive ESA and will fall into rather the support or work category of ESA.The rest who don't pass WCA will be expected to work despite the fact they might be too unwell to work or even unfit to do so.
    The WCA assesses whether you are well enough to work. It is unsurprising that people who are assessed as well enough to work are treated as if they are well enough to work.

    There seems to be a bit of a disconnect in your thinking between disability benefits - like PIP - and ability to work. The two overlap in some individuals, but they are two separate things.

    Only the disabled people themselves know how their particular disability impacts on their lives.
    Well unfortunately we can't base a benefits system entirely on self-assessment. In the meantime, it needs to be assessed in a consistent, independent way.
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    (Original post by BigV)
    I don't consider myself particularly 'lefty' but I feel the attacks on ESA/PIP/JSA claimants are particularly vile because everyone accepts the official figures show very low level of fraud.
    The fraud argument is a complete red herring. It is not fraudulent to receive incapacity benefits or ESA year after year if you have not been assessed as fit to work. However you may very well be fit to work. DWP pilots showed that about a third of claimants were fit to work, and around another third could work in the future with sufficient additional support.

    The issue is this: being out of work has hugely negative effects on an individual - whether in terms of re-entering work, gaining skills, social interaction and even things like general health and self-esteem. If you look at the outcomes for the long-term unemployed, they are frightening. The Government takes the view - rightly in my mind - that those who can work benefit hugely from working.

    We have to move away from this peculiar rhetoric of work being some sort of punishment. Over the past few decades, we've seen a revolution in disabled employment and one that has had huge benefits to disabled people, and the economy as well once we realise that we have a huge base of talent that has for too long been ignored or even maligned.

    I hear getting rid of carers allowance is now one of the options on the table as well. Clearly they don't realise what a small fortune unpaid carers safe society as a whole?
    Funny, I could have sworn the Conservative manifesto said "We will increase support for fulltime unpaid carers", and in the last five years have increased Carers Allowance.

    You'd have to be a fool to think carers don't provide a vital service and that many require financial help to do so.
 
 
 
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