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Why does the SNP feel they can treat English Taxes as some sort of piggy bank? watch

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    I don't know about you, but the fact that Scotland already receives an unfair share of public spending (that is tipped in their favour). The Barnett formula means English taxpayers are getting a rotten deal, and i seriously think that this needs rebalancing.

    Scottish students also have the luxury of free tuition fees. Then there's free prescription.

    In my mind, if Scotland wants even more, then the UK needs to look at itself and think whether a federal system is the future. I don't want Scotland to leave, but i want sensible economics, and sensible spending. If the SNP has the audacity to ask for even more, then surely its sensible they raise their own funds within Scotland.

    Very much interested in your opinions. (I voted Conservative in the election)
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    One of the greatest achievements of Alex Salmond is to promote wedge politics.

    it's fools like you that he benfits from.

    two parts of the UK create more money than they spend. London and the SE. One parts neutral, Scotland. All of the others cost money to run and spend more than they generate.

    north of the Watford gap, wales and NI.

    if you want to be upset about regions spending more than they earn, then be upset with those.

    alternatively, be upset with anybody not earning £60k plus a year because once again they're costing the tax payer money.
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    I think just for a little balance it might be worth pointing out that where as most of what you have said is true, there is an underlying feeling that despite favourable funding, Scotland doesn't have much of a say in its own affairs which are generally imposed by a largely English led Westminster parliament.

    So where as we gripe about their "unfair" spending allowance, they reasonably gripe about the fact they have little say over the things that impact them which has been somewhat born out by the white wash caused by the SNP.

    If the right wing Tories / UKIP get their way on leaving the EU, Scotland will definitely leave the UK and we (the remainder) will be very much worse off.

    Sadly nothing in this life is simple.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    One of the greatest achievements of Alex Salmond is to promote wedge politics.

    it's fools like you that he benfits from.

    two parts of the UK create more money than they spend. London and the SE. One parts neutral, Scotland. All of the others cost money to run and spend more than they generate.

    north of the Watford gap, wales and NI.

    if you want to be upset about regions spending more than they earn, then be upset with those.

    alternatively, be upset with anybody not earning £60k plus a year because once again they're costing the tax payer money.
    Good try MS but Scotland also costs more than it puts in.


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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I think just for a little balance it might be worth pointing out that where as most of what you have said is true, there is an underlying feeling that despite favourable funding, Scotland doesn't have much of a say in its own affairs which are generally imposed by a largely English led Westminster parliament.

    So where as we gripe about their "unfair" spending allowance, they reasonably gripe about the fact they have little say over the things that impact them which has been somewhat born out by the white wash caused by the SNP.

    If the right wing Tories / UKIP get their way on leaving the EU, Scotland will definitely leave the UK and we (the remainder) will be very much worse off.

    Sadly nothing in this life is simple.
    I suspect you'll find the SNP want to stay in Europe purely because it is the 'left' thing to do rather than because it is really in the Scottish interest.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    I suspect you'll find the SNP want to stay in Europe purely because it is the 'left' thing to do rather than because it is really in the Scottish interest.
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    Eh? What a bizarre thing to say? Presumably on that basis, they all voted SNP just to stick it to England?

    Maybe they want to stay in Europe because they feel having free access to a single market of like minded countries is a good thing for jobs and commerce... something the Euroskeptics don't appear to appreciate.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    One of the greatest achievements of Alex Salmond is to promote wedge politics.

    it's fools like you that he benfits from.

    two parts of the UK create more money than they spend. London and the SE. One parts neutral, Scotland. All of the others cost money to run and spend more than they generate.

    north of the Watford gap, wales and NI.

    if you want to be upset about regions spending more than they earn, then be upset with those.

    alternatively, be upset with anybody not earning £60k plus a year because once again they're costing the tax payer money.
    im not talking about other regions, I'm stating that Scotland gets more of a deal of this Barnett Formula at the expense of the expense of the taxpayer, and the average scot receives 800 pounds more than the UK average, so my question is surely if they receive more already, surely its a bit greedy to ask for even more
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Good try MS but Scotland also costs more than it puts in.


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    Not by much. And it takes out a hell of a lot less compared the NE, NW of England, Midlands, wales and Nethern Ireland.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Eh? What a bizarre thing to say? Presumably on that basis, they all voted SNP just to stick it to England?

    Maybe they want to stay in Europe because they feel having free access to a single market of like minded countries is a good thing for jobs and commerce... something the Euroskeptics don't appear to appreciate.
    The SNP switches tack to whatever seems popular rather than what is objectively best. Maybe the fishermen of the NE don't like the EU nicking a chunk of their catch to be sent elsewhere, as one example. You don't need to be in the EU to have access to the market but being inside it does mean you are forced into other things like the free movement of people.




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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Not by much. And it takes out a hell of a lot less compared the NE, NW of England, Midlands, wales and Nethern Ireland.
    Last time I checked it was more than England and the unfair Barnett formula is the reason. We'll also see how those figures look now that oil is worth half what it was last year. The Scots get the best deal and whinge the loudest every time.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    Last time I checked it was more than England and the unfair Barnett formula is the reason. We'll also see how those figures look now that oil is worth half what it was last year. The Scots get the best deal and whinge the loudest every time.

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    Not as much as NI.

    http://researchbriefings.files.parli...33/SN04033.pdf

    Do you begrudge huge expenses of sparsely populated areas being deprived?

    You're like a non moon howler SNP type.
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    This was always going to be a problem when you start dividing things up by "nations". Nationalists of both sides were going to feel short-changed regardless of what the allocation was.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Not as much as NI.

    http://researchbriefings.files.parli...33/SN04033.pdf

    Do you begrudge huge expenses of sparsely populated areas being deprived?

    You're like a non moon howler SNP type.
    I meant within Britain, the subsidies for NI are enormous and justified considering our role in messing the place up. I begrudge people who complain of a grand stitch up when they get a better deal than anyone anywhere else on the island.




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    I can find you six sources explaining why Scotland costs more than it creates and half a dozen explaining why it creates more than it costs. It also standa to reasons that per capita spending should naturally be higher in less densely populated areas if equality and fairness is something to aim for.

    But hey, instead of accepting that evaluating Scotland's role in the UK economy is complex let's just pick a source that backs up our pre-existing opinions and pretend it's all so simple.

    It's worth remembering why the Barnett formula exists in the first place too.
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    (Original post by GrigorijC1997)
    im not talking about other regions, I'm stating that Scotland gets more of a deal of this Barnett Formula at the expense of the expense of the taxpayer, and the average scot receives 800 pounds more than the UK average, so my question is surely if they receive more already, surely its a bit greedy to ask for even more
    Do they? Does this £800 plop into every scots bank account annually?
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    (Original post by Coffinman)
    Do they? Does this £800 plop into every scots bank account annually?
    It is money that goes towards freebies enjoyed in Scotland that are not elsewhere, and are then used by the Scottish government to put itself on a pedestal.


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    In actual fact, the SNP are one of the few parties who don't change tack to benefit themselves. They promised an independence referendum for over 20 years even though it initially did very little to boost their popularity among the Scottish people. Another example of this is post-referendum, when although statistically more immigrants voted against independence, they did not change their pro-immigration policies. Also, in the most recent General Election they benefitted from the first past the post voting system, which they have opposed for years. Most political parties would change their policy on this voting system when it worked in their favour, but the SNP still voiced their opposition to it. All in all, the SNP have proven that they stick to their values, when many other parties do not
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    (Original post by duckswearhats)
    In actual fact, the SNP are one of the few parties who don't change tack to benefit themselves. They promised an independence referendum for over 20 years even though it initially did very little to boost their popularity among the Scottish people. Another example of this is post-referendum, when although statistically more immigrants voted against independence, they did not change their pro-immigration policies. Also, in the most recent General Election they benefitted from the first past the post voting system, which they have opposed for years. Most political parties would change their policy on this voting system when it worked in their favour, but the SNP still voiced their opposition to it. All in all, the SNP have proven that they stick to their values, when many other parties do not
    We'll just ignore their label as the 'Tartan Tories' in the '70s and the ejection of figures like Alex Salmond for being too left wing.


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    (Original post by Midlander)
    It is money that goes towards freebies enjoyed in Scotland that are not elsewhere, and are then used by the Scottish government to put itself on a pedestal.


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    I think what you are failing to understand is how Scotland's tax breakdown, and devolution in general, works. Scottish taxes (including a proportional share North Sea oil taxes which bring in a massive revenue for the UK) are initially sent down to Westminster, where they are proportionally divided between Holyrood and Westminster based on what powers over Scotland each parliament has (and what money they need to provide services in these areas). For example, Westminster in is charge of benefits for Scotland, so will use UK tax money (including Scottish taxes) to provide these across the UK ( again, including Scotland). The taxes that go to the Scottish government are all Scottish taxes and are spend solely in Scotland. Because the Scottish government have devolved powers tge money they receive can be divided in any way they want. As Scotland is a more socialist country than England these taxes are divided on a more socialist way, and are spent on things such as University fees for Scottish students and free prescriptions.

    To reiterate, this is all paid for with SCOTTISH TAXES, not UK TAXES. The money the Scottish government receives is on a proportional basis and is decided by WESTMINSTER. That means any extra money Scotland recieves is down to the Westminster government, not the Scottish government. You're directing your anger at the wrong people, mate.

    If you have such a problem with not getting benefits from socialism, vote for a socialist party within England. However, you have said on here that you voted for the Tories, a capitalist party who actually increased tuition fees for the rest of the UK, you have no right to whinge about these so called 'freebies', which are totally paid for by Scottish taxes.

    You made your bed by voting for a party that doesn't offer these things, now lie in it.
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    (Original post by Midlander)
    We'll just ignore their label as the 'Tartan Tories' in the '70s and the ejection of figures like Alex Salmond for being too left wing.


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    The 'Tartan Tories' label was based on the fact that they were left wing, like labour, so people were voting for SNP instead of Labour. Labour lost seats and this apparently paved the way for a Tory majority, when in reality the Tories would have won even if no-one had voted SNP. It was by sticking to their and Scotland's morals, as well as English fear and stereotyping, that they were given this nickname, meaning you have once again proved yourself wrong.

    And, as far as I'm aware Alex Salmond has not been ejected from the party as he is now an SNP MP at Westminster.

    Check your facts before you start spouting nonsense. You're just embarrassing yourself.
 
 
 
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