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The Arsenal Thread XXIII

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In all seriousness though if reports are true (which they won't be) and Chelsea are going to table such ridiculous offers then it's clear they are just stalling and won't sell to us. Give it another couple of weeks and then move onto other targets, specifically Begovic, we don't want to miss the bus when there will be a LOT of keepers swapping hands once De Gea moves to Madrid and we don't want to miss out and be left with no choice but to keep Ospina.
Original post by leinad2012
Sad really that our 21 year old current bench warmer would walk into you 1st XI


he wouldn't though
Original post by difeo
he wouldn't though



When fully fit Ox > Willian
let Cech go to PSG and sign Sirigu.

simples.


he went from **** to even ****ter, incredible
Original post by leinad2012
Sad really that our 21 year old current bench warmer would walk into you 1st XI


Haha that is just fantastic. "Walk into the first XI".

Original post by leinad2012
When fully fit Ox > Willian


And when is Chamberlain ever fully fit. Play different roles anyway, Willian is willing to put a shift in every game, which as everyone knows is what Mourinho prefers.
Original post by difeo


he went from **** to even ****ter, incredible


inb4 "but he played on the wing" "hurr durr"
Original post by leinad2012
When fully fit Ox > Willian


not in Chelsea's team
Original post by The Shed End
Haha that is just fantastic. "Walk into the first XI".



And when is Chamberlain ever fully fit. Play different roles anyway, Willian is willing to put a shift in every game, which as everyone knows is what Mourinho prefers.


"Puts in a shift"

Yet the stats clearly show Ox is better in every single defensive matrix there is?

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/alex_oxlade-chamberlain/126/126/90/0/p|premier_league/2014/2015/willian/126/126/7145/0/p#tackles_won/blocks/clearances/interceptions/defence_score#90
Ox isn't a patch on Willian. When Willian is played as a workhorse he's much better than Ox in the same role, and when Willian is played as a creative link man with freedom (as he is for Brazil), he's amazing and has technical ability that Ox could only dream of.
Original post by leinad2012


strong omission of defensive errors
Original post by leinad2012


Proof, as if any more was needed, that defensive statistics in attacking players (and all players, actually) are nothing without context. Tackles and interceptions really aren't the be all and end all of defensive output from attacking players. Look at Balotelli beating Suarez in virtually every stat.

Oxlade has also played games at CM and DM, where it's easier to pick up defensive numbers.
Original post by leinad2012


Once again, an Arsenal fans compares a player to one that has played almost twice as many games/minutes, did you lot not learn with Coquelin and Matic? Chamberlain plays more central whereas Willian is almost always on the wing so will have more opportunities to get blocks and interceptions in. Only towards the end of the season did he really start drifting in field all the time. With his less playing time you would expect Chamberlain's averages to be far higher if he was that effective.

And as Pimped said, Willian's technical ability will always be far superior. He always busts out the skills for the national team, probably because he has a freer role than he does for his club.
Original post by difeo
strong omission of defensive errors


Yes because Willians was 0 and Ox 0.06, meaning throughout the season ox made 1 defensive error, Willian made 0, hardly a difference is it?
Original post by leinad2012
Yes because Willians was 0 and Ox 0.06, meaning throughout the season ox made 1 defensive error, Willian made 0, hardly a difference is it?


cherry-picking
Original post by The Shed End
Once again, an Arsenal fans compares a player to one that has played almost twice as many games/minutes, did you lot not learn with Coquelin and Matic? Chamberlain plays more central whereas Willian is almost always on the wing so will have more opportunities to get blocks and interceptions in. Only towards the end of the season did he really start drifting in field all the time. With his less playing time you would expect Chamberlain's averages to be far higher if he was that effective.

And as Pimped said, Willian's technical ability will always be far superior. He always busts out the skills for the national team, probably because he has a freer role than he does for his club.


Chamberlain has played less games, but still has 2/3 total minutes and games, so it isn't as bad a comparison as Coq. On a per game basis Chamberlain beats Willian on all fronts still, and whilst I accept Chamberlain has played at DM occasionally, it has not been a significant amount of time.

Chamberlain also wins in key passes, take-ons and chances created, where surely Willian, who only plays on the wing would have the upper hand no? Seems quite odd that you've been slagging off Willian most of the season and are now jumping to his defence. Pimped was discussing strikers, we are discussing defensive minded wingers, you see the difference there surely?
Original post by difeo
cherry-picking


Cherry picking by including every defensive stat bar 2 where both players outputs were negligable, ok bruh, I'll have whatever you're smoking :wink:
Original post by leinad2012
Pimped was discussing strikers, we are discussing defensive minded wingers, you see the difference there surely?


No I wasn't. I'm telling you factually that Oxlade shading interceptions, tackles and clearances over a 1500 minute sample means zilch.
Original post by Pimped Butterfly
No I wasn't. I'm telling you factually that Oxlade shading interceptions, tackles and clearances over a 1500 minute sample means zilch.


But that isn't the case, his stats have been consistent over the past 3 seasons (obviously last season is a tough one to judge as he only played 15 games). Combined that's a sample of 63 games, (and 3000 minutes), compared to the sample for Balotelli which you gave which was 900 minutes. You point on sample size is irrelevant when you look at the past 3 seasons.

edit: in fact this season just gone has been arguably his worst season defensively
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by leinad2012
But that isn't the case, his stats have been consistent over the past 3 seasons (obviously last season is a tough one to judge as he only played 15 games). Combined that's a sample of 63 games, (and 3000 minutes), compared to the sample for Balotelli which you gave which was 900 minutes. You point on sample size is irrelevant when you look at the past 3 seasons.

edit: in fact this season just gone has been arguably his worst season defensively


What part of 'defensive statistics mean nothing without context' do you not understand? Team strength, team defensive set up and opposition method of attack determine defensive stats.

When you're going forward, a team tends to attack through it's best players, your attacking stats (as a team) are self determined - the best players get on the ball more, and provide key passes, shots, goals and dribbles. But when you're defending, your ability to make defensive stats are dependent on your team set up, and where the opposition chooses to attack you. For example, if Oxlade has more clearances or blocks, it may well be due to him being positioned in a certain area at set pieces, whereas Willian may be positioned on the counter - it's not as if Willian would be incapable of blocking a shot when in the wall, or a clearing header at the near post.

Another example is Willian's undeniable work rate meaning that teams are reluctant to attack down his side, and prefer attacking down the right, down Hazard's side because he's more lax defensively. In this instance, Willian simply doesn't have the opportunity to get tackles and interceptions.

These are two real life examples I'm giving you to try and explain to you. There's an unlimited number of examples. It has been proven conclusively that defensive stats in attacking players, and as I said, in all players, mean little. Using marginal stats to say Willian < Ox defensively is dumb and invalid.

End discussion.
(edited 8 years ago)

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