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The Arsenal Thread XXIII

Reply 4200

Stefano93

10

inb4 Ozil sparks out Ivanovic tomorrow

Reply 4201

ZÃ¼rich

20

Original post by difeo

Why does it need to be innovative and who's pretending it is? As you say, they do it well and that's what matters.

Why do people give Mourinho such praise for it then? Di Matteo knew how to play that system too and he's garbage

And to me ''tactics'' implies something innovative, surprising and effective. Playing a left footer on the right wing or getting the striker to drop wider/deeper for instance. Telling Cahill to tuck in and lump everything clear doesnt do much for me.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 4202

sevchenko

15

Original post by Fizzel

Shed has a point. Your record against Chelsea is not just bad its notable bad, unusually so. The key is going to have to be in the way the game is approached. There is going to have to be a change from one the sides if 450 mins without a goal is going to be transformed in 3 in 90mins, if Wenger is going to win for the first time in 13 games. All those games Arsenal have had a team capable of scoring and winning, but there must be a reason why it hasn't happened. Unless you have reason to believe there is something that has changed, I can't see why you'd predict a different outcome.

Those stats are based on league matches, how applicable do you think those stats are in the type of one off game the community shield is? Chelsea usually employ a conservative stance against Arsenal in mind of the overall league strategy.

Reply 4203

username1315644

17

Original post by Zürich

Why do people give Mourinho such praise for it then? Di Matteo knew how to play that system too and he's garbage

Probably because he wins doing it. If its a system everyone can play why doesn't everyone win doing it?

Original post by sevchenko

Those stats are based on league matches, how applicable do you think those stats are in the type of one off game the community shield is? Chelsea usually employ a conservative stance against Arsenal in mind of the overall league strategy.

As Shed said, that could be it. Mou may play a more aggressive game, however as he did with us in the second league meeting if he's confident about his team he can still afford to be conservative and see how things look after 45mins. A conservative strategy is only off the table if you go ahead or he's particularly worried about it not being decided. We'll see but Jose's strategy conservative or otherwise is one he get a lot of wins and goals while carrying out so if there is going to be a change it will have to come from Wenger's end. Something pragmatic like settling for and targeting set pieces if Chelsea park it.

Reply 4204

difeo

18

Original post by Zürich

Why do people give Mourinho such praise for it then?

Di Matteo knew how to play that system too and he's garbage

Because he does it so well. How many great managers are actually the first to play a certain way? Although yeah his brilliance is probably a bit over-hyped because of his personality.

Di Matteo didn't really, he conceded well over a goal a game.

Reply 4205

Depleted

3

Scenes when you actually think Jose just tells his players to sit on the box and hoof it forward when it comes near

Reply 4206

username358506

20

Original post by Depleted

Scenes when you actually think Jose just tells his players to sit on the box and hoof it forward when it comes near

What scene? They probably all ask him why he's stating the obvious.

Reply 4207

The Shed End

2

Reckon Jose will be confident that we could win a shoot-out as well given we've beaten both Barca and PSG on them, isn't it after 90 mins in the Community Shield. Also, Arsenal beat City 3-0 in the shield last year with a weakened defence and some guy called Willy in goal, really not sure what makes them think they will score that many with a defence of Courtious, Iva, Terry, Cahill/Zouma and Azpilicueta, without Sanchez.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Moses start tomorrow afternoon either. Played very well in pre-season and Willian's only been training a week as well. If Jose uses this a platform to experiment a bit as well I think we'll have a midfield 3 of Matic, with Fabregas and Oscar slighty ahead of him with Moses and Hazard on ether wing. If Costa's out then Remy will start and would expect to see Falcao on in the second half.

Reply 4208

ZÃ¼rich

20

Original post by Depleted

Scenes when you actually think Jose just tells his players to sit on the box and hoof it forward when it comes near

Enlighten me about the nuances of Gary Cahill's tactical game?

If you think there's anything complex going on then you've just bought into the tabloid media-hype around Jose. He's a brilliant motivator and knows how to get results, but he is no tactical genius. Why didnt he change it up against PSG for instance? He has one gear.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 4209

Depleted

3

Original post by Zürich

Enlighten me about the nuances of Gary Cahill's tactical game?

If you think there's anything complex going on then you've just bought into the tabloid media-hype around Jose. He's a brilliant motivator and knows how to get results, but he is no tactical genius. Why didnt he change it up against PSG for instance? He has one gear.

What do you think Wenger says to Mertesacker then?

There's instructions on when to press, when to track back, how to transition on the counter attack, which runs to make etc etc. you make it seem like he's playing FIFA, going on park the bus and then the players mash L2+Y until they get clean through. It's like saying Wenger doesn't have tactics, it's just pass pass pass, then play someone through if the opportunity arises or get balls into the box.

Reply 4210

Pimped Butterfly

1

He is undeniably a tactical genius. His repertoire does seem limited in recent seasons though and he definitely underperformed in both of the last two campaigns. Finishing third with his Chelsea team was atrocious and whilst a season in which winning the league can only harshly be deemed underperformance, the tie against PSG definitely was pitiful.

Reply 4211

The Shed End

2

Original post by Pimped Butterfly

He is undeniably a tactical genius. His repertoire does seem limited in recent seasons though and he definitely underperformed in both of the last two campaigns. Finishing third with his Chelsea team was atrocious and whilst a season in which winning the league can only harshly be deemed underperformance, the tie against PSG definitely was pitiful.

We would have won the league had it not been for the atrocious refereeing of the Liverpool supporting Mike Dean against Sunderland. Losing away to Palace and Villa was uncharecteristic for Mourinho, At Palace we were awful, but against Villa the ref gave an incorrect offisde against Torres, disallowed a Matic goal, gave a very questionable red card to Willian, sent off Mourinho when he asked why he had been told to go to the stands while Agbonlahor who raced off the bench to grab Ramires around the neck didn't get anything. Literally, every one on the touchline ran onto the pitch yet out of 10-20 people it was Mourinho who got sent off for asking the ref a question.

We got 16 out of 18 points against the top 5 iirc, also were competing in the CL until the SF which neither Liverpool or City were from February onwards so had 2 games a week whereas they had one. That year was always going to be who could balance attack and defence the best, despite your sides ridiculously good attacking stats, and our ridiculously good defending stats, City's balance was the best and that's why they won.

Reply 4212

Nickini

2

Original post by Zürich

Why do people give Mourinho such praise for it then? Di Matteo knew how to play that system too and he's garbage

And to me ''tactics'' implies something innovative, surprising and effective. Playing a left footer on the right wing or getting the striker to drop wider/deeper for instance. Telling Cahill to tuck in and lump everything clear doesnt do much for me.

Like Costa does? Or playing Azpi at LB...?

Original post by Pimped Butterfly

He is undeniably a tactical genius. His repertoire does seem limited in recent seasons though and he definitely underperformed in both of the last two campaigns. Finishing third with his Chelsea team was atrocious and whilst a season in which winning the league can only harshly be deemed underperformance, the tie against PSG definitely was pitiful.

A strikeforce of Eto'o, Torres and Ba vs. City and Liverpool who both scored over 100 goals, any outcome other than third would have been exceptional. Would probably have finished closer to the title (if not won it), had KdB/Mata not been sold in January too, not a particularly outlandish thought that one (or both) of those two could have made the difference in the 0-0 vs West Ham or 0-1 loss to Palace e.g..

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 4213

Pimped Butterfly

1

Original post by Nickini

A strikeforce of Eto'o, Torres and Ba vs. City and Liverpool who both scored over 100 goals. Would probably have finished closer to the title (if not won it), had KdB/Mata not been sold in January too, not a particularly outlandish thought that one (or both) of those two would have made the difference in the 0-0 vs West Ham or 0-1 loss to Palace e.g..

Mourinho chose his strikeforce, he chose to sign Eto'o instead of X big name European player, which Chelsea can and do attract (or Costa a season early, given he was available for 20m). Ba had a 20 goal season in him for Chelsea if he could score 16 for Newcastle, and was underplayed. Eto'o scored at every 130 minutes across the campaign, which is properly elite and puts him at 3/4th best ever in the PL. Mourinho underplaying Ba and playing Torres ruined his season, and that's on Mourinho and Mourinho alone.

You're essentially trying to put it down to limited resources and I think that's just unfathomable.

Reply 4214

The Shed End

2

Original post by Nickini

Like Costa does? Or playing Azpi at LB...?.

Zurich wouldn't know tactics if it punched him the face. He's blinded by his hate for Mourinho/Chelsea.

Reply 4215

ZÃ¼rich

20

Mourinho tomorrow if Arsenal score first and he actually has to respond with a proactive set up.

Maybe he'll ask Cesc for some advice on what Wenger would do?

Reply 4216

Pimped Butterfly

1

Original post by The Shed End

We would have won the league had it not been for the atrocious refereeing of the Liverpool supporting Mike Dean against Sunderland. Losing away to Palace and Villa was uncharecteristic for Mourinho, At Palace we were awful, but against Villa the ref gave an incorrect offisde against Torres, disallowed a Matic goal, gave a very questionable red card to Willian, sent off Mourinho when he asked why he had been told to go to the stands while Agbonlahor who raced off the bench to grab Ramires around the neck didn't get anything. Literally, every one on the touchline ran onto the pitch yet out of 10-20 people it was Mourinho who got sent off for asking the ref a question.

We got 16 out of 18 points against the top 5 iirc, also were competing in the CL until the SF which neither Liverpool or City were from February onwards so had 2 games a week whereas they had one. That year was always going to be who could balance attack and defence the best, despite your sides ridiculously good attacking stats, and our ridiculously good defending stats, City's balance was the best and that's why they won.

Okay and Liverpool would have won the league if Sterling hadn't been ruled offside when he was 6 yards onside and we'd have gone 2-0 up at the Etihad in December.

It's just ifs and buts mate. At the end of the day, you only got 82 points (iirc). That's appalling and finishing below a Liverpool side with genuine poverty like Skrtel, Cissokho, Johnson, Allen playing so many games is a really, really poor performance. Sure you had multiple competitions going but that's par for the course when you're a big team with big resources like Chelsea. Ultimately Mourinho's limited attacking coaching meant that when you couldn't break Palace down, you were just reliant on Ivanovic hitting and hoping from 30 yards, and it wasn't the only time that season. That comes down to underplaying Ba and just not coaching the necessary creativity into his team.

I was (am?) a huge fan of his. Basically my inspiration and I get called Mourinho all the fkin time. He probably is (or will go down as) the greatest manager in history by results. But he definitely ****ed up that season.