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Is David Cameron trying to fix an EU referendum? watch

  • View Poll Results: Should EU immigrants be allowed to vote in an EU referendum
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    Backbench Tory MP's are furious David Cameron is planning to let EU immigrants vote in an EU referendum and demand the vote is general election voting rules mainly British voters and Commonwealth. This is after on Thursday Jeremy Hunt on Question Time also refused to back equal spending limits to allow the EU to fund the In campaign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...t-to-vote.html

    Should it be British voters only?, is David Cameron offering a fair referendum? is he trying to fix the result?
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    I want the UK in the EU but think it should only be british citizens (not commonwealth as they could gain from brexit) I dont want the result challenged. Cameron won the election spending way more than labour, ot would be hipocritical of him to limit spending.
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    We had English people vote in the Scotland referendum, so I don't see the problem.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    We had English people vote in the Scotland referendum, so I don't see the problem.
    the difference being we are 1 nation and 1 people, immigrants do not have British citizenship and will vote in the interests of their home country which will be for in
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    (Original post by Ace123)
    the difference being we are 1 nation and 1 people, immigrants do not have British citizenship and will vote in the interests of their home country which will be for in
    General election rules allow anybody who has moved to the EU (about 2 million Brits) to vote for upto 15 years afterward.

    I don't care which rules are used but i'm simply saying that your going to get undesirables voting either way.
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    Expanding Labour markets only serves those who own Land & Capital.

    The owners of Land & Capital will spend huge amounts of money telling people how great racial diversity & open borders is for the UK and try to fool the workers of their country. This happened before. It was called New Labour. Tony Blair barked on about diversity and open borders like gospel. This attracted a special kind of centrist political activist. They where your atheist Darwinist champions of mediocracy. Basically Blairites who did the Conservative party job for them.

    Do I think David Cameron and the Conservative party will try and rig or fix the EU referendum for a No vote to leave the EU?

    Of course they will.

    It is not in the interests of owners of Land and Capital to see a less labor in their current labor market because it means as supply of labor dwindles business will have to start paying a higher wage to keep the employees they currently have.

    Now think real hard. Anyone who would try and argue against this has an agenda leaning towards the profitability of business and misery of workers.

    And put this in a student perspective. What is the use of having 1 graduate off TSR doing 1 job when you can have 5 graduates from different student websites and pay them less to do the same job?

    Its win-win for business! Screw the workers though because being pro-worker is bad!!!
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    If they are resident here and paying tax here then they should definitely be allowed to vote.
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    If they are resident here and paying tax here then they should definitely be allowed to vote.
    I would be careful there because desperate people do desperate things. Its not a question of liberty to move, settle where one chose it is a question of the monoply of labor which the owners of land and capital have.

    If you vote pro-eu to enforce that then your low wages and job instability is a outcome of that choice.
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    (Original post by Ace123)
    Backbench Tory MP's are furious David Cameron is planning to let EU immigrants vote in an EU referendum and demand the vote is general election voting rules mainly British voters and Commonwealth. This is after on Thursday Jeremy Hunt on Question Time also refused to back equal spending limits to allow the EU to fund the In campaign

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...t-to-vote.html

    Should it be British voters only?, is David Cameron offering a fair referendum? is he trying to fix the result?
    Yes, just as he fixed the Scottish referendum by letting English immigrants vote.
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    (Original post by Ace123)
    the difference being we are 1 nation and 1 people, immigrants do not have British citizenship and will vote in the interests of their home country which will be for in
    Two countries, two people.
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    I'm not convinced that Cameron actually wants to leave the EU, I think it's more likely that he just wanted the anti EU vote for the election. If it comes down to it, he will probably campaign against leaving in the end.
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    Under British law anyone residing in the UK who is from EU or Commonwealth is free to vote, as well as any Citizens residing abroad. I do not see a problem with this.

    I actually want a Commonwealth Union too, in addition to EU membership, even if it's just CAN/AUS/NZ.

    Something I was discussing over countries with high foreigner populations like UAE and Singapore was about having two assemblies with one elected on citizenship and the other on residency. I'm not sure if it's viable for Britain to do something but it's certainly something the UAE should do.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    I would be careful there because desperate people do desperate things. Its not a question of liberty to move, settle where one chose it is a question of the monoply of labor which the owners of land and capital have.

    If you vote pro-eu to enforce that then your low wages and job instability is a outcome of that choice.
    Only if you compare to a UK benchmark, as part of the EU we'd still be doing pretty well, and if we put ourselves on the right route for federalisation (e.g. reduce military power or become the defacto defence centre, negotiate our position in education including moving to the standard 2 year masters courses, standardising medical education and implementing a new EU wide qualification for 18 year olds) we could well end up in a better position than before with lower tax spending, a greater influx of brain power from more people being able to speak English and an image as the inspiration for making the future EU.
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    (Original post by earthworm)
    I want the UK in the EU but think it should only be british citizens (not commonwealth as they could gain from brexit) I dont want the result challenged. Cameron won the election spending way more than labour, ot would be hipocritical of him to limit spending.
    Depends on which part of the commonwealth you're talking about, the parts which are most similar already have a high proportion of British citizens and also a lot of them move to the UK already. A vote against the EU would be against their interests as it would reduce their options of where to travel and live while having minimal or negative effects on their economies and potentially causing them to distance themselves even more from the UK in order to have better trade prospects with the EU (as evidenced by what Gibraltar intends to do if the UK leaves).
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    (Original post by Ace123)
    the difference being we are 1 nation and 1 people, immigrants do not have British citizenship and will vote in the interests of their home country which will be for in

    Yes but your'e not a scottish nationalist. Maybe scottish Nationalists feel the same way about English migrants?
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    (Original post by Mark8346)
    I'm not convinced that Cameron actually wants to leave the EU, I think it's more likely that he just wanted the anti EU vote for the election. If it comes down to it, he will probably campaign against leaving in the end.
    Partly, but also partly to incentivise the EU to give a better deal to Britain to help sell the EU in the referedum.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Yes, just as he fixed the Scottish referendum by letting English immigrants vote.
    I think Salmond actually requested that. It was 400k English in Scotland vs 800k Scots in England getting the vote.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)

    If you vote pro-eu to enforce that then your low wages and job instability is a outcome of that choice.

    But actually thats rubbish. One of the main reason why the Hardcore Thatcherite elements and the Libertarian UKIP want to get out of the EU is precisely because the EU tries to enforce regulation to give workers better rights and job protection. Thats apparently on of the things that makes it the EUSSR apparently. The only time the EU has activley tried to suppress wages is when they tried to limit the amount that very high paid bankers could earn from bonuses (B ut it could get overuled y the shareholders). This was overturned by Osborne who was supported by the peoples champion Nigel, standing up for those poor wealthy bankers.

    Additionaly, the Daily Expresses lovely propieter dirty desmond decided to generously donate a million pounds to ukip. His staff havent had a pay rise in years. This is the real reason why staff dont get pay rises, not migrants and bureaucrats in brussels.

    http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=157
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    (Original post by Mad Vlad)
    If they are resident here and paying tax here then they should definitely be allowed to vote.
    There's no election or referendum ever been conducted on that basis. There is always some sort of citizenship threshold (whether British, EU or Commonwealth).
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    It's a brilliant move by the eurosceptics, either: DC doesn't cave in - gets lots of neg PR - out vote boosted, or b, DC agrees - EU says that it's against EU rules - out vote boosted.


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