Why do we give religious beliefs more privileges than other beliefs (political, etc.)

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Lady Comstock
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At their core, religious beliefs, political beliefs, vegetarianism, etc. are all ideologies that people follow and believe in to varying degrees. The fact that one believes in a divine entity and the other a superior form of governance does not change the fact that they are both man-made ideologies at their core.

The Government would never agree to an anarchist school or legislate to protect communists or vegetarians. Yet, religious beliefs receive huge privileges in society.

Is this fair? Thoughts?
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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I don't have time to get into drawn out arguments about this but in case you weren't aware, a lot of religious people would dispute your use of the term "ideology"; also, the idea that their religion/so-called "ideology" is man-made :fyi:

As a religious person (albeit liberal), I think there is a difference and thus it is fair enough to distinguish between religious and political beliefs. Afaik, no other belief system can condemn you to hellfire for all eternity :headfire:
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Lady Comstock
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(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
I don't have time to get into drawn out arguments about this but in case you weren't aware, a lot of religious people would dispute your use of the term "ideology"; also, the idea that their religion/so-called "ideology" is man-made :fyi:
Religions are, by definition, ideologies. How are they not?

And, a rather vehement communist may claim that communism is not man-made but an inherent and objective part of the universe. Do they deserve the same privileges as religious people?

As a religious person (albeit liberal), I think there is a difference and thus it is fair enough to distinguish between religious and political beliefs. Afaik, no other belief system can condemn you to hellfire for all eternity :headfire:
Err, so what's the difference? The fact that one has the bizarre and fanciful notion of an underground pit of fire that we go to when we die (as per your last sentence)? And that justifies the greater privileges?
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The_Lonely_Goatherd
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Like I said, I don't have time for arguments (working on a conference paper). I have already told you what the difference is. You may disagree if you want - no skin off my nose :nah:
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James222
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People have fought wars over religion, its torn continents apart
So Religious Freedom is a important principle to not force people to do something that is against their beliefs

Aka if your a quaker and you dont want to fight in ww2 fine

But if your just being lazy then thats no excuse
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Lady Comstock
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(Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd)
Like I said, I don't have time for arguments (working on a conference paper). I have already told you what the difference is. You may disagree if you want - no skin off my nose :nah:
Fair enough, but I just think it's a bizarre qualifier (the notion of hellfire) for giving religious beliefs privileges beyond those of other beliefs, particularly when plenty of religious beliefs do not involve hellfire.
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Lady Comstock
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(Original post by James222)
People have fought wars over religion, its torn continents apart
So Religious Freedom is a important principle to not force people to do something that is against their beliefs

Aka if your a quaker and you dont want to fight in ww2 fine

But if your just being lazy then thats no excuse
So, because religious people have fought violent wars in the past they should receive privileges beyond people with other beliefs? Even if I accept that qualifying distinction, plenty of wars have been fought over political and social beliefs (the biggest being WWII).
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James222
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
So, because religious people have fought violent wars in the past they should receive privileges beyond people with other beliefs? Even if I accept that qualifying distinction, plenty of wars have been fought over political and social beliefs (the biggest being WWII).
Basically yea. Often religious people were the ones being persecuted by the state
As a society we have agreed on a social contract between the state and its people to not infringe on certain rights.

WW2 was a war amongst nation states and if nations stick to the UN charter then war would never happen
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Kvothe the Arcane
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
So, because religious people have fought violent wars in the past they should receive privileges beyond people with other beliefs? Even if I accept that qualifying distinction, plenty of wars have been fought over political and social beliefs (the biggest being WWII).
You're doing a bit of a bait and switch. Your original question was about why religion is a privileged ideology. Not whether it should be the case. History is history. Things happened and whether they should have happened or not is another discussion.
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Lady Comstock
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(Original post by keromedic)
You're doing a bit of a bait and switch. Your original question was about why religion is a privileged ideology. Not whether it should be the case. History is history. Things happened and whether they should have happened or not is another discussion.
I was responding to his notion that the qualifying distinction re privileges between religious and other ideologies is that the former has been involved in wars. I hardly see how that is 'bait and switch'.
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B-FJL3
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
At their core, religious beliefs, political beliefs, vegetarianism, etc. are all ideologies that people follow and believe in to varying degrees. The fact that one believes in a divine entity and the other a superior form of governance does not change the fact that they are both man-made ideologies at their core.

The Government would never agree to an anarchist school or legislate to protect communists or vegetarians. Yet, religious beliefs receive huge privileges in society.

Is this fair? Thoughts?

What do you mean by "huge privileges"? Can you be more specific?

As far as I am aware the law provides for the protection of all ideologies in the Human Rights Act, article 9: Freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This includes political beliefs, vegetarianism, atheism, etc... Surely it constitutes protection for communists, vegetarians and religions alike?

I'm not sure the Government would reject the idea of an anarchist school, or indeed whether it could do so and successfully defend such a decision against a legal challenge. On the topic of alternative schools you may be interested by Summerhill School (perhaps not strictly speaking an anarchist establishment, but certainly unusual):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School
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garfeeled
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(Original post by James222)
People have fought wars over religion, its torn continents apart
So Religious Freedom is a important principle to not force people to do something that is against their beliefs

Aka if your a quaker and you dont want to fight in ww2 fine

But if your just being lazy then thats no excuse
but that is also true about political belief, wars are fought over them, so shouldn't a non religious pacifist have be exempt from ww2, or what about a british nazi (assumeing they promise not to fight against).
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James222
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(Original post by garfeeled)
but that is also true about political belief, wars are fought over them, so shouldn't a non religious pacifist have be exempt from ww2, or what about a british nazi (assumeing they promise not to fight against).
If someone was a actual pacifist and had been a pacifist before WW2 then I would have supported a exemption for that person aswell.

A British Nazi during WW2 would most likely have been interned till the end of the war and rightly so.

WW2 was not about political beliefs but a ugly form of German Nationalism at war against the British Empire which fought it self defense, political ideas didnt really come into it.
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Wade-
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
At their core, religious beliefs, political beliefs, vegetarianism, etc. are all ideologies that people follow and believe in to varying degrees. The fact that one believes in a divine entity and the other a superior form of governance does not change the fact that they are both man-made ideologies at their core.

The Government would never agree to an anarchist school or legislate to protect communists or vegetarians. Yet, religious beliefs receive huge privileges in society.

Is this fair? Thoughts?
Mostly because they're old, lots of people believe it to be right and they're generally not harmful


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Pegasus2
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
At their core, religious beliefs, political beliefs, vegetarianism, etc. are all ideologies that people follow and believe in to varying degrees. The fact that one believes in a divine entity and the other a superior form of governance does not change the fact that they are both man-made ideologies at their core.

Is this fair? Thoughts?
Ignoring the part about religion being an ideology (It isn't generally, but it can be and the term 'ideology' is usually applied to political movemetns) since that is another discussion.


I love flipping ideas/arguments etc so, rather than thinking of 'privilaged',
think of it as religious freedom. People can believe/do what they want.

In the same vein, it's very similar to political freedom, the choice to vote for whomever you want. Other freedom's you have, would be freedom from discrimination, from harm, from slavery, freedom of expression, of speech etc etc.

All these things are protected, are they ideologies? As far as I know, no one is persecuting vegans. These protection laws are for everyone, to make sure people's fundamental rights arn't infringed and their quality of life damaged.

I don't think religious groups recieve anything massively special? Only the freedom to practise their faith without fear of persecution, somthing which is very real in less developed parts of the word.

If you want to see what happens when you remove freedom of religion just look up Hitler's germany and Stalin's Russia, both of which denied freedom of religion because of their extreme political ideologies.
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SnoochToTheBooch
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Because people have a ****ing whinge or worse if you don't.
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