Is Judo the most useless martial art for self defense? Watch

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the bear
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#41
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#41
the best form of self defence is the little known martial art known as Runinga-Wei

:kungfu:
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Some Black Dude
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#42
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(Original post by RockyDennis)
Muay Thai is EASILY the most effective martial art. It's not close. I had the chance to train alongside an elite world ranked Muay Thai fighter... I was going to an MMA gym at the time and he was completely new to "MMA", just had experience with striking, so he got paired up with me.

They actually learn a lot of takedowns and takedown defence in Muay Thai, like you wouldn't think that would you? He had tonnes of sweeps and all sorts of ****, and could block takedowns to an elite level.

Judo is good and works, because it teaches you ground grappling, but for a complete martial art Muay Thai is the best... Or Combat Sambo, but Muay Thai appears to be at a higher level AND striking is WAYYYY more useful in a fight. If an ELITE MMA fighter got into a street fight, it's almost guaranteed they'd start out by throwing hands and kicks, because they probably would assume their great striking is better than whoever they're facing. That's why some guys like Don Frye got KO'd in street fights because he was unlucky enough to try using his great hands against a good boxer - Might have even been a somewhat famous one I forget. Anyone into MMA is best served just shooting a takedown straight away, and treating every opponent like they're world class boxers.

In almost ALL situations though grappling is dangerous. There's almost no situations apart from very contrived ones (e.g. sporting events) where you can grapple without getting your head kicked in by someone while you're rolling around. Best use of wrestling or judo is to just chuck someone down and then kick them in the head - which is taught in Muat Thai.
I disagree, with one on one altercations grappling has proven many times to be almost as good, just as good, or slightly better than striking depending on the context of a fight. Of course on the streets if you believe someone will jump into the fight, something like Muay Thai will probably be slightly more effective, for multiple attackers I'd even rather have a background in grecoroman wrestling to be able to redirect people without going to the ground and boxing just so I can bop people real quick and pop out, I wouldn't really wanna kick against multiple guys up close since the probability of someone grabbing my leg goes up a BUNCH.

I don't see the problem with grappling though anyway. Most people straight up can't grapple, but as I said before people can intuitively punch. The vast majority of the techniques in grappling are takedowns, which if you do them on someone who doesn't know how to break falls you normally end the fight then and there. Slams and throws have been known to end MMA fights which take place on something MUCH softer than concrete with people MUCH more skilled in grappling than brawlers. Then the other part of grappling that's common is submissions, when someone gets the better of you it never hurts to submit them unless you know someone else will jump in, in which case you should really just get to your feet. The part in between is the dangerous one, because the more athletic man normally wins the clinch and any attacker will probably be more athletic than you based off the fact that lions don't attack other lions, they attack sheep.

About your muay thai thing though, I wouldn't consider it a martial art. Muay Thai has really absorbed kickboxing if you think about it, it's sort of just kickboxing. Most muay thai guys have experience in other martial arts. Some of the best kickboxers have experience in upwards of 5 striking martial arts. I would consider traditional muay thai a martial art, but not a terrible effective one. Kickboxing on the other hand I believe is a sport/martial art and is certainly a valuable tool than as much as any (unless you want to consider MMA a martial art or you carry a weapon).

In totality I'm saying that grappling has it's place in street fights but only when it's one on one or you are FORCED to grapple against multiple people. And Muay thai has become so impure that you might as well be called kickboxing, and I agree that it's VERY valuable for self-defense
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RockyDennis
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#43
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(Original post by Some Black Dude)
I disagree, with one on one altercations grappling has proven many times to be almost as good, just as good, or slightly better than striking depending on the context of a fight. Of course on the streets if you believe someone will jump into the fight, something like Muay Thai will probably be slightly more effective, for multiple attackers I'd even rather have a background in grecoroman wrestling to be able to redirect people without going to the ground and boxing just so I can bop people real quick and pop out, I wouldn't really wanna kick against multiple guys up close since the probability of someone grabbing my leg goes up a BUNCH.

I don't see the problem with grappling though anyway. Most people straight up can't grapple, but as I said before people can intuitively punch. The vast majority of the techniques in grappling are takedowns, which if you do them on someone who doesn't know how to break falls you normally end the fight then and there. Slams and throws have been known to end MMA fights which take place on something MUCH softer than concrete with people MUCH more skilled in grappling than brawlers. Then the other part of grappling that's common is submissions, when someone gets the better of you it never hurts to submit them unless you know someone else will jump in, in which case you should really just get to your feet. The part in between is the dangerous one, because the more athletic man normally wins the clinch and any attacker will probably be more athletic than you based off the fact that lions don't attack other lions, they attack sheep.

About your muay thai thing though, I wouldn't consider it a martial art. Muay Thai has really absorbed kickboxing if you think about it, it's sort of just kickboxing. Most muay thai guys have experience in other martial arts. Some of the best kickboxers have experience in upwards of 5 striking martial arts. I would consider traditional muay thai a martial art, but not a terrible effective one. Kickboxing on the other hand I believe is a sport/martial art and is certainly a valuable tool than as much as any (unless you want to consider MMA a martial art or you carry a weapon).

In totality I'm saying that grappling has it's place in street fights but only when it's one on one or you are FORCED to grapple against multiple people. And Muay thai has become so impure that you might as well be called kickboxing, and I agree that it's VERY valuable for self-defense
The useful stuff in Muay Thai I was thinking of moreso is the clinch and knees/elbows.

You said you'd use Greco Roman wrestling and boxing. Again you're having to combine multiple martial arts because they aren't complete enough on their own. Muay Thai incorporates ALL aspects of striking, plus takedowns and takedown defence.

Combat SAMBO is the most complete martial art in the world because it also has ground grappling as well, but you don't want to be on the ground in 99.9% of possible situations. Muay Thai teaches you the perfect form of street defence. I'd much rather take a punch to the face than be stuck in a plum I can't escape getting kneed repeatedly in the face like Wanderlei did to Rampge Jackson in one of their fights.
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Jt_405271
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#44
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This specific martial art is very effective in a real life situation or a street fight because the other opponent who just is expecting to kick and punch (does not know judo) is not going to expect losing his or her center of gravity at a unexpected moment and escape from it and for example doing a Seo Nagi then putting someone in a arm bar is so much more lethal then just repeatedly punching or kicking.
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Dodevu
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#45
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Yeah it's pretty ****, learn Muay Thai and hit someone with a dirty leg kick and they will drop... Trust me when you get kicked by someone that knows Muay Thai you will get destroyed.
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etali
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#46
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I've trained karate (got to first dan and quit), Muay Thai (unlearning all those bad karate habits was hard), BJJ (currently a three stripe blue belt), Judo (only ever on 'pay as you throw so never graded), wrestling (two year's worth) and MMA.

It's harder to do damage with a kick or punch than a lot of people think. Yes, it's possible to stop a fight fast with a well placed clean hit, but that takes training. If a good judo guy gets a hold of you, you won't be able to punch or kick because they'll have you controlled and you'll be on the floor in seconds. A GOOD judo person that trains in a club with good newaza will submit someone on the ground before they know what's happening - they will have learned to transition from standing to the ground fast. I've trained in good judo clubs, and I've trained in some really, really bad ones.

I think Muay Thai is very effective, but what will you do if someone rugby tackles you to the ground? I think wrestling/judo are effective (but what will you do if someone starts throwing punches). I think BJJ is effective (a lot of clubs actually do cover how to cope with strikes even if not how to throw them), but how will you get the fight to the ground if you train at a guard pulling club?

It pays to be well rounded. But that means that you're investing several nights a week into training for a street fight that probably won't happen.
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IDOZ
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#47
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#47
Forget Judo, you need to do Taekwondo. That is a good self defence martial art. I did it for just about 8 years
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Randyyy
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#48
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A lot of people responding who don't train, haven't tried many different combat sports (who the **** calls them martial arts, this isn't hollywood), or train at McDojos
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FlyingRabbit
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#49
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(Original post by FunkItsMechanics)
Like, slowly grab someone and grapple them completely useless for self defense, they punch you once and you are knocked out you dont have time to do your slowpoke fancy throws and pins on them

the only pro I can see is that you can pin someone without hurting them so you wont be as likely to get in trouble if you end up fighting
"Slowpoke"... just lol.

Seems like you have never been thrown by a pro.
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dude101010
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#50
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#50
judo is not useless. it helps you in close up situations.
it should be combined with a striking art e.g. boxing
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dude101010
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#51
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(Original post by dude101010)
judo is not useless. it helps you in close up situations.
it should be combined with a striking art e.g. boxing
of course, you will need to practise a lot. if you are good you can take people to the ground very fast.
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username3842822
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#52
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It's probably better than any traditional martial art which is based on Katas as opposed to contact sparring, the only things which are better will be Muay Thai and (kick)boxing but these have the trade off that you'll probably suffer long term damage so unless you are good enough to go pro or you're survival depends on it there is little point.
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Tigerking99
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#53
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(Original post by FunkItsMechanics)
Like, slowly grab someone and grapple them completely useless for self defense, they punch you once and you are knocked out you dont have time to do your slowpoke fancy throws and pins on them

the only pro I can see is that you can pin someone without hurting them so you wont be as likely to get in trouble if you end up fighting
It is definitely not the most useless martial art for self defence. Most fights end up in some sort of grappling situation, in such a situation, Judo will pretty much ensure you will win if the other guy has no similar grappling training.

Judo has a lot of pros as a martial art. The fact that it is practised in sports forms means that you can build up fitness, conditioning, entrench techniques in your muscle memory and know what it's like to apply techniques on fully resisting adversaries. Although, Judo's sport aspect is both a pro and a con. Being a sport comes with all the aforementioned positive attributes. However, it also means that there are rules and rules weaken the system due to limiting what you can do.

To conclude, here's what I'd say. Judo is one of the best grappling martial arts for self-defence, in my opinion it's better than Aikido and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu but not as good as effective styles of Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Like I said previously, most street fights do at some point involve grappling. Judo will let you take down in an attacker with a controlled throw and keep them pinned on the ground through applying a lock, hold-down or choke. However, if you want to be fully prepared for a street fight then you need to receive some training from a striking-based martial art too. For striking, I would recommend something like Kickboxing. So no, Judo is not the most useless martial art for self-defence, not even close. You seem to think grappling is useless in a street fight but it's not, in a grappling situation (especially on the ground), a striker such as a Boxer, Karate guy or Taekwondo player etc are just a fish out of water and a Judoka would dominate them in such scenarios.
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Chris Johnson
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#54
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No comment on the question you asked but to be honest, if you need to self defence, then the situation must be serious and you need to take someone down as fast as you can. Therefore, I think that the fastest and easiest way is to learn how to knock someone out in one punch. LOL
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kodokan Dan
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#55
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Kodokan judo. Freestyle wrestling and jujitsu. Judo is the most dangerous. And complete martial art. If I slammed u on your head your dead. Most American judo instructors. Didn't fight. Or do mma. Or my favorite. They learned it too slowly. Because there skills were low. Some people also are not as athletic. So they do the lesser called. Bjj. Judo is practiced by every military. Don't be confused. With. Craw McGraw. That's. Low lvl skilled. Bare hand to hand. I'm a pro mma champion. I'm telling u from experience. Good judo. Is freestyle wrestling. And jujitsu. So if you did. Bjj. Your not doing wrestling. And. Last but least. We can fall and be ok.
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SmashConcept
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#56
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(Original post by kodokan Dan)
Kodokan judo. Freestyle wrestling and jujitsu. Judo is the most dangerous. And complete martial art. If I slammed u on your head your dead. Most American judo instructors. Didn't fight. Or do mma. Or my favorite. They learned it too slowly. Because there skills were low. Some people also are not as athletic. So they do the lesser called. Bjj. Judo is practiced by every military. Don't be confused. With. Craw McGraw. That's. Low lvl skilled. Bare hand to hand. I'm a pro mma champion. I'm telling u from experience. Good judo. Is freestyle wrestling. And jujitsu. So if you did. Bjj. Your not doing wrestling. And. Last but least. We can fall and be ok.
I agree with all of this.
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