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PBL - Pros and Cons

HEy Hey everyone,

as a lot of people are having interviews around this time, i thought it would be wise to get a thread going about why we like PBL or why we prefer the alternative, as this is always a likely question to come up. Here are my thoughts.

advantage - through PBL you can pick up valuable communication skills, and learn to work more effectively in team situations - which is invaluable in hospitals and surgeries.

disadvantage - it is not as content rich as a traditional teaching structure, leaving students less well informed about the issues.

your views please...

ryan xx

Reply 1

j00ni

9

yoshin

disadvantage - it is not as content rich as a traditional teaching structure, leaving students less well informed about the issues.

lol I hope nobody plans to say the above at an interview with a PBL med school :p:

I'd say a better (and closer to the truth) way to phrase it would be that there is less didactic teaching and so a student will require a lot of commitment and dedication to self directed learning to be able to gain adequate knowledge.

Another disadvantage, possibly the biggest in my experience, is that how well PBL works depends on the group dynamic. If you have an enthusiatic group, with everyone contributing and bringing their experiences to the table, and there is a debate/discussion it can greatly aid learning. However if nobody, or only a couple of people are participating it ends up being a series of mini lectures, with nobody really listening - and those who do put in the work get no benefit whatsoever, and become disillusioned with bothering to do it.

However PBL does have a number of advantages, the main being enabling lifelong learning techniques. In a traditional format, students are told what is true and what isn't, they are not encouraged to question dogma, and often end up only having parrot-fashion repetition of fact - making it difficult to adapt to the changing face of medicine, and the variability of human presentations.

With PBL, whilst you may have less core knowledge - given something which they have no knowledge/experience of, thye pbl approach allows them to very quickly and easily find out about the problem and solve it. The traditional approach does not leave much scope for the unknown.

That's the theory anyway, and it seems to bear out in practice - though obviouslt there is a lot of variation

Reply 2

Johnny C.

9

There was an interesting article in student BMJ on this several months back.
In a survey they found that PBL students normally leave Uni with less knowledge than non-PBL students, however within a year of leaving uni, PBL students had more knowledge than non-PBL.

In other words, PBL gives you the ethos and skills to teach yourself and continually update your knowledge, which in the long run will probably leave you more knowledgeable

Reply 3

Landy3693

I'd say the biggest disadvantage is that to some extent you are reliant on others for some of your learning. Although you are ultimatly responsible for your own learning if some members of the group don't pull their weight it can make your life more difficult trying to learn everything you need to a good standard. When people are asked to go away and do research in their delegated areas and come back and share their research with the group, a situation can arise where some members of the groups research isn't of a high enough standard and you end up having to do it yourself.

Reply 4

Daveo

16

Landy3693

I'd say the biggest disadvantage is that to some extent you are reliant on others for some of your learning. Although you are ultimatly responsible for your own learning if some members of the group don't pull their weight it can make your life more difficult trying to learn everything you need to a good standard. When people are asked to go away and do research in their delegated areas and come back and share their research with the group, a situation can arise where some members of the groups research isn't of a high enough standard and you end up having to do it yourself.

I don't think in practice thats a disadvantage as you make out.
In my experience. The people who work do all the work anyway, even if you make an agreement to each concentrate on a particular topic, most of your 'typical' medics still cover everything in detail anyways. I don't find myself relying on anyone for any of my learning whether I do the work or not.

I'm still not really sure what I think about PBL having done it for 3 and a half years. I like that fact that it gives me complete freedom about what I learn and when, however I dislike that fact there is no pressure on me to do anything so some weeks I do others. This obviosuly leaves gaps in my knowledge however I still seem to do ok in my exams [touch wood].

PBL is useful to discuss interesting topics, or topics which are more challenging. Group discussion can be very interesting and useful but is often just made up of people reading extracts of textbooks which is as boring as **** (altough I am often guilty of this myself) Like j00ni said it is very much dependent on the group dynamic.

Reply 5

feluda_uk

i think its a good thing where if you don't pull ur weight you have to answer to the rest of the group, which can be good motivation if you don't want people to think ur a lazy arse

Reply 6

Renal

17

I've never been in a group that shared out learning objectives. Everyone did everything and anyone could be asked to talk about anything - indeed, everyone was expected to contribute a little to everything.

I dunno why this is such a big issue to be honest, after pre-clinical everyone everywhere will have to learn through FOFO.

Reply 7

simac

In our groups at peninsula, everyone does everything, we dont share out questions either.

Reply 8

yoshin

OP

im quite cynical in that i think pbl is an excuse for lecturers not to lecture as much
this is probably ok for the top 50% of med students, but the lower 50% may end up with serious gaps in their knowledge. do we seriously want doctors like this???

luv,
ryan

Reply 9

cowsgomoo

13

advantage - theres more involvement from students, suit people who don't find it easy to learn in lectures, who like to learn by talking things through, and by taking charge of your own learning, doing your own research helps you get broader view ot topics, promotes team spirit, tutor makes sure you dont go off track, early exposure to real life issues

disadvantages - requires self motivation, doesn't suit those who have a more academic way of learning, some topics may be best taught formally, you might have a lazy member of the team

Reply 10

Saffie

11

advantages:

it forces you to do work.
it helps you meet new people.

disadvantages:

you have to do work!
you can't stay with your friends all the time!

i''m not even joking :rolleyes:

Reply 11

Daveo

16

Saffie

advantages:

it forces you to do work.
it helps you meet new people.

disadvantages:

you have to do work!
you can't stay with your friends all the time!

i''m not even joking :rolleyes:

What kind of PBL do you have where you are forced to do work :eek:

In my experience there is no regulation on the amount of work done, the only thing which might motivate me is not wanting to look too lazy/stupid infront of my peers.

Reply 12

Saffie

11

Daveo

What kind of PBL do you have where you are forced to do work :eek:

In my experience there is no regulation on the amount of work done, the only thing which might motivate me is not wanting to look too lazy/stupid infront of my peers.

well yes, that's also my motivation. But it's quite a strong motivation.. don't you think? :s:

we get a group mark for each PBL and if you don't participate- the tutor and group usually mention it.

Reply 13

bright star

1

ok, i'd say one of the things my knowledge lacks at this stage (i'm on a pbl course) is the ability to link all the topics together. i have notes in files on individual modules but when it comes to linking them together in order to actually apply any of the information, i along with the rest of my group are weak.

major advantage being that we have to learn it all as we go along. we're not allowed notes in our sessions so it made revising for my exams a lot easier knowing that i'd learned everything already rather than shoving lecture notes on a shelf until the week before your exam

(ps to whoever said you can't stay with your friends all the time, grow up... i'd love to see an interviewer's face as you gave that as a reason)

however, if you choose not to work at pbl you can get away with it really easily. if you learn some random stuff for each objective you can offer that up then you won't get picked on for questions..... so yeah, you need to be really motivated or you'll do badly.

Reply 14

Renal

17

bright star

ok, i'd say one of the things my knowledge lacks at this stage (i'm on a pbl course) is the ability to link all the topics together. i have notes in files on individual modules but when it comes to linking them together in order to actually apply any of the information, i along with the rest of my group are weak.

Surely this applies to anyone doing a systems based course course whether PBL or traditional.

I wouldn't know, but I bet it's worse in a subject based course...

Reply 15

bright star

1

hmmm, i dunno. often when people lecture, they point out all the links and stuff, just by listening to them you pick them up. we have plenaries sometimes and i find that link making is all they're good for, just the little random snippets of specialised knowledge that the people have as opposed to a book which can't explain why it's good to know about osmosis or whatever.... imo anyways. now i'm on a pbl course, the idea of being taught by someone who knows what they're talking about is an appealing one....

Reply 16

Daveo

16

bright star

ok, i'd say one of the things my knowledge lacks at this stage (i'm on a pbl course) is the ability to link all the topics together. i have notes in files on individual modules but when it comes to linking them together in order to actually apply any of the information, i along with the rest of my group are weak.

I don't really agree with that. What you're saying goes against one of the fundamental concepts of PBL. The idea that as part of the process you first link together cues from a case, then when you've finished a case you should discuss the links in more detail. The, IMO is one of the concepts on which PBL is based, at least thats what the idea is here at Manchester, shame it doesn't really work much anymore. (although it did in first year)

I would guess students on a traditional course have more difficulty linking topics than PBL students

Reply 17

Renal

17

Yer, can you compare trying to link anatomy of the lungs with microanatomy of the lungs with pharmacology of the lungs with genetics of cancer with microanatomy of cancere as opposed to a Lung Cancer PBL.

Reply 18

bright star

1

hmmm, we don't have any time for linking in our sessions and our facilitator has never mentioned it. my group sucks tho, they just want to escape quickly rather than understand. i'm happy i have a new one now... :-)

it's the blood supply that really gets me. i learn it for all the individual systems but when it comes to tracing routes of blood through the body i can't do it. i've learned it all in bits that i can't fit together.

PBL - Pros and Cons

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