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Introduction of Comprehensive Schools in Northern Ireland watch

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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    Do you have any idea when this will be released?
    Before the end of the school academic year -I believe.

    I'm sure the recommendations will be loudly trumpeted in the media and one can already guess what is going to be said to the report by various groups!
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    (Original post by Bezza)
    It would be amazing, if it were true - but it's not. TTS has 100% of pupils getting 5 passes, 4 of which can come from IT. After these 5 they might all be failing the more academic subjects but this won't be reflected in the league tables.
    http://www.ttsonline.net/general/new...gcse_2003.html

    connect to this link and find out the truth. Don't post opinions as though they were fact!

    That is not a very intelligent thing to do as it leads to you looking very silly
    That link confirms what I was saying - the 100% figure refers to 5 passes, not every single exam taken.

    Where exactly is the opinion I make out to be fact in this post? In fact, where's my opinion in it at all? I don't think it's me looking silly
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    (Original post by me!)

    In a comp, the 'clever' kids get held back by the rest of the class, even with streaming ability varies greatly (this is probably true of grammars too, but won't be as much so because on average the children's abilities will be higher) so extremely bright kids can 'get lost in the crowd'; the teacher concentrates on bringing everyone to the same level because there is simply not the time to help the brighter kids and the lower ability kids and then the kids who are the 'average' of the class. So the teacher has to work to an average standard. This means that the clever children stay at the same level while the others 'catch-up' with them and so the achievement of the more able is considerably lower than it should be because there simply isn't the time to cater for their needs...

    Then you abolish grammars and so even more 'more able' kids are in the comps, the schools will have to cater for their needs and schools will also have to be made bigger and have more teaching staff and facilities to cater for the higher intake... Some of the more able kids may be caught up with the pricks so that's them done in - which would have not happened in a grammar because work ethos are higher in grammars and there are a much lower number of 'pricks' so they would have worked but in a comp there's the lure of these kids and to be one of them. With streaming you will have to introduce more sets because of the higher intake but ability will still vary and people will still not achieve their potential. In lessons where there are no sets the disruptive kids will disrupt the more able kids' learning, so achievment here is not so great and is lower than it would be in a comp.

    Also in a comp teachers have to try and cater for everyone's needs which ranges across a wide spectrum and they cannot do this, so they end up targeting the average kid's needs and people get 'lost in the crowd'. Whereas at a grammar although abilities and needs will still vary it won't be as much as at a comp, so the school can more successfully target the needs of everyone...
    I agree completely. Although this is an individual problem in itself, which will not be solved by adding a few grammar school pupils to the classes.

    What's more annoying is you can't write things in brackets on your CV such as "(was close to getting an A grade, however teacher didn't give a **** and was to busy teaching intermediate, rather than helping me with higher tier).", "(My school only had a 30% or whatever 5A*-C pass, which is a good reason for why my GCSE results are not good)." or "My average point score of my school is 60pts, so I have really achieved for getting 300pts".
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Regardless of any excuses you may give to try to undermine the success of TT, the point is, it works!!

    And it works without the intake being skewed by academic ability. They take in (as I said before) a representative proportion of the natural range of abilities in the country. They admit children from all social groupings, children with statements of special needs and those from socially deprived backgrounds.

    Does this really stick in the throats of those who wish to retain selection, that a school can be so successful without being an independent or grammar school?

    The proof is there and I think this is the way that education will go in this country, thereby negating any need for academic selection (whose success is because of intake only).

    In other words, you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with the right conditions
    TT is bloody rich, but not all comprehensives will be as rich as they are, I believe its money is the reason for its success. You cannot cite one school as proof that comprehensive education works.

    Grammars also admit from any background, they are none-discriminatory.

    If grammars are closed (though I think your predictions are rather premature), it will be a great shame that the world's best state schools, schools that almost on their own helped close the social gap, will be closed, and it will be a shame that some people will abandon state education for the new private schools that grammars become.
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    I agree completely. Although this is an individual problem in itself, which will not be solved by adding a few grammar school pupils to the classes.

    What's more annoying is you can't write things in brackets on your CV such as "(was close to getting an A grade, however teacher didn't give a **** and was to busy teaching intermediate, rather than helping me with higher tier).", "(My school only had a 30% or whatever 5A*-C pass, which is a good reason for why my GCSE results are not good)." or "My average point score of my school is 60pts, so I have really achieved for getting 300pts".
    When you get your results I KNOW they'll be good anyway, but when you apply for uni's and stuff you can explain about your results and they do take into account the school that you go/went to as well... Sometimes in a few of my subjects I sometimes feel that I've got where I am on my own with no help from the teacher whatsoever... But that's got nothing to do with this thread :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    You cannot deny Thomas Telford loves the GNVQ ICT, it sells software for it! And once you count this, only 6 other GCSEs are needed for this 10 A*-C, which is less of an achievement than 10 full GCSEs A*-C.

    I also may point out that, as one of the first of the "city academies", the government has given TT plenty of funding and support.
    Really, LH, what would you expect from a City TECHNOLOGY College. I would be very disappointed if any school with a speciality did not focus attention of their particular strength. Why have speciality status otherwise?

    Other schools are anxious to emulate the success of TT and so they make it available to them.

    Perhaps we need to look closer at the subjects taken before jumping to the conclusion that all the success is due principally to ICT.

    I welcome the support that you say the government have given TT (although I would contest that this includes funding as City Academies have private sponorship) and would say that it vindicates what the government is attempting to do for ALL children.
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    (Original post by me!)

    When you get your results I KNOW they'll be good anyway, but when you apply for uni's and stuff you can explain about your results and they do take into account the school that you go/went to as well... Sometimes in a few of my subjects I sometimes feel that I've got where I am on my own with no help from the teacher whatsoever... But that's got nothing to do with this thread :rolleyes:
    That's okay then. But because I'm going to one of the top places to do A-levels, I hope they don't this success is all to do with teaching!
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Really, LH, what would you expect from a City TECHNOLOGY College. I would be very disappointed if any school with a speciality did not focus attention of their particular strength. Why have speciality status otherwise?

    Other schools are anxious to emulate the success of TT and so they make it available to them.

    Perhaps we need to look closer at the subjects taken before jumping to the conclusion that all the success is due principally to ICT.

    I welcome the support that you say the government have given TT (although I would contest that this includes funding as City Academies have private sponorship) and would say that it vindicates what the government is attempting to do for ALL children.
    I assume that they didn't use GNVQ ICT in 1997, but their results have jumped by 14% by using it in 1998.

    This is one school in god knows how many, it would be asking a lot to make all comprehensives the same standard.
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    That's okay then. But because I'm going to one of the top places to do A-levels, I hope they don't this success is all to do with teaching!
    lol I'm sure they won't!

    I'm staying at my school for sixth form there hasn't really seemed to me like there's any other option...
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Really, LH, what would you expect from a City TECHNOLOGY College. I would be very disappointed if any school with a speciality did not focus attention of their particular strength. Why have speciality status otherwise?

    Other schools are anxious to emulate the success of TT and so they make it available to them.

    Perhaps we need to look closer at the subjects taken before jumping to the conclusion that all the success is due principally to ICT.

    I welcome the support that you say the government have given TT (although I would contest that this includes funding as City Academies have private sponorship) and would say that it vindicates what the government is attempting to do for ALL children.
    GNVQ ICT is the only embodiment of technology in the school? Not a very good technology college then.

    Other schools are anxious to rise up the league tables which is made easier with GNVQ ICT.

    The government has given support to TT, as have private businesses, which has made TT into an anomaly, there is simply not enough money for every state school in the country to emulate this!
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    (Original post by me!)

    lol I'm sure they won't!

    I'm staying at my school for sixth form there hasn't really seemed to me like there's any other option...
    Well if you're happy and you can still achieve, then go for it! If you're school doesn't do too well for A-levels and you get good grades, the universities will love you. So it's a good idea, really.

    Is there anywhere else you'd like to go?
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    (Original post by Bezza)
    That link confirms what I was saying - the 100% figure refers to 5 passes, not every single exam taken.

    Where exactly is the opinion I make out to be fact in this post? In fact, where's my opinion in it at all? I don't think it's me looking silly
    All league tables require the benchmark of 5 A* - C grades for GCSE - that does not mean that the results are limited to 5 passes as the school selects the best 8 point scores, totals and divides them by the number of candidates and the benchmark is then arrived at, i.e. out of the best 8 passes how many, out of 5 are at A* -C grades?

    If you go back to your posts on this thread you will see why I say you jump to conclusions and post them as fact, not only about TT but everything else which you think supports your stance.

    And then when someone has the information at their fingertips that illustrates your lack of knowledge, it does make you look silly - imo.
    I do not make statements as fact without the evidence to back it up so if it's not you that looks silly, it's definitely not me!
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    GNVQ ICT is the only embodiment of technology in the school? Not a very good technology college then.

    Other schools are anxious to rise up the league tables which is made easier with GNVQ ICT.

    The government has given support to TT, as have private businesses, which has made TT into an anomaly, there is simply not enough money for every state school in the country to emulate this!
    I don't know how much you know about achieving 'specialist' status but I suspect, not a lot!

    To aspire to the lofty heights of speciality, a school has to demonstate that they are increasingly successful in raising academic achievement all round, not just in their intended speciality.

    If you check out the Dfes website, there is a whole tranch of information on 'specialist' schools.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    GNVQ ICT is the only embodiment of technology in the school? Not a very good technology college then.

    Other schools are anxious to rise up the league tables which is made easier with GNVQ ICT.

    The government has given support to TT, as have private businesses, which has made TT into an anomaly, there is simply not enough money for every state school in the country to emulate this!
    To gain 'specialist' status schools have to make up all these plans of action and stuff to be able to try and achieve specialist status, they also have to raise £50 k before the government will give them anything, then each 5 years or something the school is reviewed in their specialist area and also throughout overall results to make sure they are keeping to their plans and making progress... My school is actually a sports college... One of the schools in my LEA is a science and technology college and it has been for years (mine school was only made a sports one recently) but it is always really low in the league table (3rd or 4th from the bottom)... By making schools a specialist school the results aren't always as good as TT were...
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    I don't know how much you know about achieving 'specialist' status but I suspect, not a lot!

    To aspire to the lofty heights of speciality, a school has to demonstate that they are increasingly successful in raising academic achievement all round, not just in their intended speciality.

    If you check out the Dfes website, there is a whole tranch of information on 'specialist' schools.
    Indeed it is hard work to get that specialist status, and schools do it because they get a nice six figure sum every year!

    Although Huntroydge is right, schools do only use the 4 GCSEs worth of GNVQs to go up the league tables.
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    My school did actually apply to become a technology college but rejected it as the "ethos" of the school would hve to change so they're rebuilding the maths block instead.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    There have been very big hints dropped that there needs to be more focus on the rights of the overwhelming majority of students to the best that education can provide.

    We don't have long to wait and it will be interesting to hear the apoplectic protestations of the very vociferous minority who wish to protect the elite status of their own children's education at the expense of the education of others' children.
    So you'd happily sacrifice the education of the future leaders of this country so that the future manual labourers and skilled workers can use a computer? Until we have implemented a system where everyone can achieve their full potential (which comps definitely do not allow), the best we thing we can do for the country is to get the top students to a high standard compared to the other developed countries, and the lowest students to a good level of literacy, numeracy and general education. Universities are now finding that our secondary education is so week that for some courses (I think engineering was the specific one I heard about), they now have to spend a lot of the first year teaching knowledge that students used to learn at school. In the past, grammar schools prepared people for university with an excellent standard of education, and the other secondary schools prepared people for life and finding a job.

    Surely you can see the irony that the PM, leader of a party that is totally anti-grammar, went to one of the most prestigous private schools in Scotland

    It's only natural to want the best for your own children - I wouldn't lose much sleep if my children got an excellent education at the expense yours - it's obviously not an ideal situation, but at the end of the day you have to look after your own.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    My school did actually apply to become a technology college but rejected it as the "ethos" of the school would hve to change so they're rebuilding the maths block instead.
    I thought they didn't have much money?! My school couldn't afford to build anything.
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    I thought they didn't have much money?! My school couldn't afford to build anything.
    The parents donated money.

    My school has lots of money and land in its foundation but this can't be used for new buildings etc., only scholarships and prizes.
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    (Original post by happysunshine)
    Well if you're happy and you can still achieve, then go for it! If you're school doesn't do too well for A-levels and you get good grades, the universities will love you. So it's a good idea, really.

    Is there anywhere else you'd like to go?
    IMO if someone wants to do well and is going to do well they will do well anywhere... I couldn't see the point in leaving my school (and my best friend! lol seems like a stupid reason in writing but in reality, my reality it makes a hell of a lot of sense!) my school may not be the best to put it politely, but I still feel that I can hopefully still achieve... Also if I left I think a few of the teachers might kill me! (seriously...)

    Although there are other sixth forms in my area there's no where that I really wanted to go :/
 
 
 
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