UKIP opose TTIP Watch

ChaoticButterfly
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So then, meanwhile labour (even the SNP) are just pussy footing around the issue with their it's fine but don;t worry we will protect the NHS.

Better send in the mindlessly pro EU blairites to win back these UKIP voters. :rofl:

I don;t like UKIP but they are being more useful than labour MEPs in this instance :indiff:

There also seems to be schism going on in UKIP at the moment. They don't know whether to be an actual right wing libertarian party or just some socially conservative strain of the authoritarian Tories. Even though I don't like them we could do with some actual right wing libs.


Green and Plaid also 100% appose TTIP.
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HarryGaga
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This is fantastic! I wish TTIP would feature on UK news networks more and that they would show UKIP's opposition.
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Davij038
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They've done a u-turn, just like they u turned on privatising the NHS and old nigel resigning.

In any case they're populists: they'll do what they think is popular not what is right. Come the European elections they and the greens won't have an economic recession to exploit and will once again be assigned to the dung heap of history.
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ChaoticButterfly
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Short informative vid on what TTIP is and why it is crap.

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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
They've done a u-turn, just like they u turned on privatising the NHS and old nigel resigning.

In any case they're populists: they'll do what they think is popular not what is right. Come the European elections they and the greens won't have an economic recession to exploit and will once again be assigned to the dung heap of history.
How is chasing the centre not populist? Good god, how dare they appose something that most people would agree is a bad idea to gain support. The labour party is too far up it's own and the EUs arse to mention TTIP. This is the sort of thing they are supposed to oppose. Useless party.As for the Tories TTIP is everything they stand for. Rigging capitalism in favor for the uber privilege but packaging it in a way that that can be marketed to the public.

UKIP like to pretend they are right wing libertarians (they do a lot of **** which isn't that), it's consistent for a proper right wing lib to appose TTIP.

(Original post by HarryGaga)
This is fantastic! I wish TTIP would feature on UK news networks more and that they would show UKIP's opposition.
Well considering they give UKIP good coverage and pretty much ignore the Greens etc it probbaly will :rolleyes:
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SotonianOne
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Short informative vid on what TTIP is and why it is crap.

Your video is proof as to why it isn't crap.
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MindTheGaps
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Short informative vid on what TTIP is and why it is crap.

Well that's the silliest thing I've watched for a while. Flagrantly misrepresents most of those issues, and then talk about hyperbole!

I guess it makes sense if you think capitalism is ipso facto bad, and companies shouldn't be allowed to do anything. :rolleyes:

For instance, this idea that it's just terrible that, if a government does something that damages a company's finances, they can sue for compensation. We already have those laws in this country and for a good reason: if the government takes or damages your property they should pay for it, same as anyone else. The SNP complain about this particular element because, if a government wants to nationalise a business, they have to pay a fair price to the owners. This annoys the SNP because it makes it too expensive for them to just steal other people's things. All objections run on this sort of logic.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Davij038)
They've done a u-turn, just like they u turned on privatising the NHS and old nigel resigning.
They've realized to become electable they can't be pro uber privatization. Which is what the Tories are. The health secretary wrote a book effectively calling for the NHS to be replaced with a private "service" for pity's sake. But they don;t campaign on that as no one would vote for them.
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Davij038
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
How is chasing the centre not populist? Good god, how dare they appose something that most people would agree is a bad idea to gain support.
I guess populism is different because it is generally a position of negative popularity rather than a postion of positive appeal- so for instance poplism tends to place blame on certain groups- Bankers, foreigners etc- and thus inevitably is generally linked to the far left and far right- as this group is generally unlikley to gain power, populism is used to A: Create an aura of mass appeal and B: Mobilise a dedicated group (see ukips people army spamming up comments sections for example) to give the appearance of popular support.

Its always interesting how far left flows into far right- this is known as the horseshoe effect- In some ways the Nazis were the perfect sympthesis of far left and far right proctenionism.


Centrist policies are ones designed to create a consensus of opinion- populist policies are ones to create a dominance of one opinion.
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username878267
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Fair play to ukip ( and I never thought I'd say that) .
New labour are pathetic for not opposing ttip, until they genuinely become an alternative to the Tories they won't get anywhere. No more red Tories please. As for the Tories, well big businesses being able to bully national governments is what they're all about.

The idea that our public services should be turned into basically a corporate power grab is incredibly frightening.

But that's aspirational yeah?
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username878267
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
How is chasing the centre not populist? Good god, how dare they appose something that most people would agree is a bad idea to gain support. The labour party is too far up it's own and the EUs arse to mention TTIP. This is the sort of thing they are supposed to oppose. Useless party.As for the Tories TTIP is everything they stand for. Rigging capitalism in favor for the uber privilege but packaging it in a way that that can be marketed to the public.

UKIP like to pretend they are right wing libertarians (they do a lot of **** which isn't that), it's consistent for a proper right wing lib to appose TTIP.



Well considering they give UKIP good coverage and pretty much ignore the Greens etc it probbaly will :rolleyes:
That's because the greens are an extremist hitler loving party who want to make it mandatory to join Isis and pay 7898% tax on everything you earn didn't you know? Have you not been listening to the right wing press? They're always correct and never misleading.

Those nasty greens supporting nasty policies like supporting the poor and disabled and creating a minimum wage which people can actually live on. Not to mention supporting the protection of our planet -extremists ! And to top it all off they oppose a handful of individuals from controlling nearly all the wealth. !!! How anti-aspirational !
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Rakas21
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Lots of scare stories about TTIP. Why not consider the good points like jobs, growth and investment.
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username878267
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Lots of scare stories about TTIP. Why not consider the good points like jobs, growth and investment.
So very legitimate concerns are now scare tactics ? Okay.
They have been considered but are still massively outweighed by the bad points. as usual though the main people benefiting will be a handful of individuals and corporations, not the public at large. The idea that big businesses are more powerful and can bully governments is frightening to say the least. Ah the free market,
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Lots of scare stories about TTIP. Why not consider the good points like jobs, growth and investment.
Would you sell your own granny for growth?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Bornblue)
So very legitimate concerns are now scare tactics ? Okay.
They have been considered but are still massively outweighed by the bad points. as usual though the main people benefiting will be a handful of individuals and corporations, not the public at large. The idea that big businesses are more powerful and can bully governments is frightening to say the least. Ah the free market,
Are you not pro-EU? They already 'bully' us into giving them contracts over our own workers and can already sue the UK should we try nationalise the railways or energy. Why is it fine for the EU to do this but not the US?
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username878267
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Are you not pro-EU? They already 'bully' us into giving them contracts over our own workers and can already sue the UK should we try nationalise the railways or energy. Why is it fine for the EU to do this but not the US?
I'll hold my hands up and admit that before the election I generally backed the labour position as I was caught up in the election hype and tribalism.
However now having done some research I am undecided on the EU . I don't like or understand why labour is so pro -EU. There are good things and bad things about it. I hate the idea of ttip but I am very much in favour off the free movement of people.
However ukip alone almost make me want to stay in due to their reasons for wanting out (xenophobia).

Overall I think it needs reforming to check and control the corporate power. I am undecided , edging reluctantly towards staying in but could be persuaded by a strong and sensible non-sensationalist, non -ukip/ daily mail argument for leaving (which isn't based on immigration).

I don't really think it is a right v left issue though, there are both very capitalist but also very lefty parts of it. It's not straight forward.
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SeaPony
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UKIP is the only major party opposing TTIP.
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Катя
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(Original post by SeaPony)
UKIP is the only major party opposing TTIP.
So why did Roger Helmer vote for it, with all other MEPs abstaining, last time a vote was held on this in the European parliament?
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username878267
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(Original post by SeaPony)
UKIP is the only major party opposing TTIP.
Green Party are opposing it and have the same number of mps. Find it funny that you oppose ttip when opposing it is actually a socialist concept. You blindly support anything they do. No doubt if ukip came out and supported increasing benefits you'd change your tune. That's the thing about tribalism.
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username878267
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Would you sell your own granny for growth?
You've made the mistake of assuming Tories have a sense of compassion. They'd turf their own mother out onto the streets it it meant 'growth'
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