University of Oxford
Oxford
Is an Oxford postgraduate degree worth it?
I'm considering doing a masters after finishing my BA next year, and ive been told that Oxford is a good place to consider doing an MPhil, because of the name. However, after doing some research online (newspapers, TSR, etc), I sort of have the following impression:
1) Oxford invests very little in their postgraduate teaching compared to how much they invest in their prestigious undergraduate programs; the quality is good, but no better than other postgraduate degrees at other good universities. There's also no tutorial system (which is what Oxford is known for); ive also read that postgrads barely even have any contact with their college supervisor. On the whole, the college seems more or less irrelevant to a postgraduate, at least academically.
2) Ive also done a bit of research on accommodation. It seems like many colleges offer their best rooms (or in the case of smaller college, all their on-site rooms), to undergraduates. I might be wrong, but it looks like a postgraduate would just rent a house and do research at the department/faculty, and that, again, the college is irrelevant (yet ironically postgraduates have to pay a £2000 or so 'college fee'? for what?)
So why would anyone recommend doing a masters there for the name (unless there's a specific course/supervisor that could be useful)? I'm not saying, I'm just asking. It would seem to a casual observer that everything Oxford is known for (the college life, tutorials, a quality of teaching that beats other institutions), has little or no relevance to a postgraduate.
Would appreciate any insights to this.
1) Oxford invests very little in their postgraduate teaching compared to how much they invest in their prestigious undergraduate programs; the quality is good, but no better than other postgraduate degrees at other good universities. There's also no tutorial system (which is what Oxford is known for); ive also read that postgrads barely even have any contact with their college supervisor. On the whole, the college seems more or less irrelevant to a postgraduate, at least academically.
2) Ive also done a bit of research on accommodation. It seems like many colleges offer their best rooms (or in the case of smaller college, all their on-site rooms), to undergraduates. I might be wrong, but it looks like a postgraduate would just rent a house and do research at the department/faculty, and that, again, the college is irrelevant (yet ironically postgraduates have to pay a £2000 or so 'college fee'? for what?)
So why would anyone recommend doing a masters there for the name (unless there's a specific course/supervisor that could be useful)? I'm not saying, I'm just asking. It would seem to a casual observer that everything Oxford is known for (the college life, tutorials, a quality of teaching that beats other institutions), has little or no relevance to a postgraduate.
Would appreciate any insights to this.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Katy2015
I'm considering doing a masters after finishing my BA next year, and ive been told that Oxford is a good place to consider doing an MPhil, because of the name. However, after doing some research online (newspapers, TSR, etc), I sort of have the following impression:
1) Oxford invests very little in their postgraduate teaching compared to how much they invest in their prestigious undergraduate programs; the quality is good, but no better than other postgraduate degrees at other good universities. There's also no tutorial system (which is what Oxford is known for); ive also read that postgrads barely even have any contact with their college supervisor. On the whole, the college seems more or less irrelevant to a postgraduate, at least academically.
1) Oxford invests very little in their postgraduate teaching compared to how much they invest in their prestigious undergraduate programs; the quality is good, but no better than other postgraduate degrees at other good universities. There's also no tutorial system (which is what Oxford is known for); ive also read that postgrads barely even have any contact with their college supervisor. On the whole, the college seems more or less irrelevant to a postgraduate, at least academically.
Oxford invests a lot in their postgraduate teaching by offering more than 900 postgraduate scholarships, beating every other uni except Cambridge.
The collegiate system is less relevant, yes. It's mostly for socializing.
Original post by Katy2015
2) Ive also done a bit of research on accommodation. It seems like many colleges offer their best rooms (or in the case of smaller college, all their on-site rooms), to undergraduates. I might be wrong, but it looks like a postgraduate would just rent a house and do research at the department/faculty, and that, again, the college is irrelevant (yet ironically postgraduates have to pay a £2000 or so 'college fee'? for what?)
2) Ive also done a bit of research on accommodation. It seems like many colleges offer their best rooms (or in the case of smaller college, all their on-site rooms), to undergraduates. I might be wrong, but it looks like a postgraduate would just rent a house and do research at the department/faculty, and that, again, the college is irrelevant (yet ironically postgraduates have to pay a £2000 or so 'college fee'? for what?)
Not their "best" rooms, the "oldest ones on the historic college site", which are given to undergrads. But it also means that many of these rooms are not ensuite and can be small. Moreover undergrads are often asked to leave at the end of each term (great
).Postgraduate rooms are often on annexes, but are newer and better. It depends on the college though.
College fees are actually £2848.
Original post by Katy2015
So why would anyone recommend doing a masters there for the name (unless there's a specific course/supervisor that could be useful)? I'm not saying, I'm just asking. It would seem to a casual observer that everything Oxford is known for (the college life, tutorials, a quality of teaching that beats other institutions), has little or no relevance to a postgraduate.
Would appreciate any insights to this.
So why would anyone recommend doing a masters there for the name (unless there's a specific course/supervisor that could be useful)? I'm not saying, I'm just asking. It would seem to a casual observer that everything Oxford is known for (the college life, tutorials, a quality of teaching that beats other institutions), has little or no relevance to a postgraduate.
Would appreciate any insights to this.
More funding, brand, networking, nice place, great research.
(edited 8 years ago)
University of Oxford
Oxford
It probably depends on your subject and your field within that subject area, tbh, when considering whether it is worth it. I personally agree with everything you've written in your OP (disclaimer: I was an undergrad at Oxford, though not a postgrad) and would say you should aim for the right supervisor, rather than the Oxford 'brand' name.
It also depends on what your long-term career ambitions are. If you want to work abroad, for example, then maybe the Oxford name carries some advantage...
It also depends on what your long-term career ambitions are. If you want to work abroad, for example, then maybe the Oxford name carries some advantage...
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
It probably depends on your subject and your field within that subject area, tbh, when considering whether it is worth it. I personally agree with everything you've written in your OP (disclaimer: I was an undergrad at Oxford, though not a postgrad) and would say you should aim for the right supervisor, rather than the Oxford 'brand' name.
It also depends on what your long-term career ambitions are. If you want to work abroad, for example, then maybe the Oxford name carries some advantage...
It also depends on what your long-term career ambitions are. If you want to work abroad, for example, then maybe the Oxford name carries some advantage...
I'm looking at the colleges (so far Balliol, Brasenose, Oriel) which teach the course I'm looking at. Why is it that graduates live 15 minutes from the main college site, while undergraduates get to live in the college? its sort of unfair (and I'm supposed to pay a £2,800 fee for NOT living in college? for not getting anything out it of academically??). I hope you understand where I'm coming from; everything I look at so far indicates a big bias against graduates.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Katy2015
I'm looking at the colleges (so far Balliol, Brasenose, Oriel) which teach the course I'm looking at. Why is it that graduates live 15 minutes from the main college site, while undergraduates get to live in the college? its sort of unfair. I hope you understand where I'm coming from; everything I look at so far indicates a big (not even small) bias against graduates.
I can't give you a definite reason and I dunno about the colleges in question as to what their undergraduate provision is, but not many colleges provide accommodation within the college's own boundary for all three years - it's usually in an annexe, which would be about 15 mins away. So it's perhaps not as different as it looks
But I do agree with the general point that the bias is towards undergraduates and that the undergraduates probs get more towards their money's worth. At least in music, which is the only subject I can advise about, really 
Original post by Katy2015
I'm looking at the colleges (so far Balliol, Brasenose, Oriel) which teach the course I'm looking at. Why is it that graduates live 15 minutes from the main college site, while undergraduates get to live in the college? its sort of unfair (and I'm supposed to pay a £2,800 fee for NOT living in college? for not getting anything out it of academically??). I hope you understand where I'm coming from; everything I look at so far indicates a big bias against graduates.
You can live on-site in graduate colleges, such as Wolfson, Kellogg, St Antony's etc.
Original post by Katy2015
1) Oxford invests very little in their postgraduate teaching compared to how much they invest in their prestigious undergraduate programs;
If it's a research master's degree, why would you expect massive investments in teaching?
If it's a taught master's course, they probably invest more into them compared to their undergraduate courses, if anything. They don't do big lectures which would usually be more 'cost-efficient', you'd be taught (intimately) by academics usually of a higher rank (ie their salaries are higher), and you won't be tutored, supervised, or lectured by a DPhil candidate like undergraduates do. They probably also have a lot more money going in to be spent specifically on postgraduate taught courses, with more international money, outside studentships/scholarships, etc.
This is without taking into account of other resources available only to graduates: Research grants, extra study spaces, teaching opportunities, Junior Deanship, etc.
Original post by Katy2015
the quality is good, but no better than other postgraduate degrees at other good universities.
The above doesn't lead to this. If you have reasons to believe that Oxford invests less on graduate students than on undergraduates, which may or may not be true, it will also be reasonable to believe that other universities might invest even less, being poorer than Oxford is overall.
Original post by Katy2015
There's also no tutorial system (which is what Oxford is known for);
But why are you evaluating any postgraduate course based on what anyone does in an undergraduate course? Do you not think the mode of studies and support should be different due to the different natures of the two levels of studies?
Original post by Katy2015
ive also read that postgrads barely even have any contact with their college supervisor.
And this is relevant, why? Tutors for undergraduates are not always in the same college as they are, and college advisors are different from supervisors. You don't meet your college advisor often because s/he has nothing really to do with your studies, but only your general welfare. It's the same reason why you don't meet your GP every week.
Original post by Katy2015
On the whole, the college seems more or less irrelevant to a postgraduate, at least academically.
And that is a disadvantage?
Instead of limiting your academic support to one college, at postgraduate level you can have better academics drawing from the University.
Original post by Katy2015
2) Ive also done a bit of research on accommodation. It seems like many colleges offer their best rooms (or in the case of smaller college, all their on-site rooms), to undergraduates.
First-year undergraduates, usually. Unless you're at St John's or somewhere with a lot of on-site rooms, you're very unlikely to be living on site even as an undergraduate. Wadham even places their undergraduates all the way to Summertown.
Original post by Katy2015
I might be wrong, but it looks like a postgraduate would just rent a house
The majority of graduate students I know live in either university or college maintained accommodation. And you're saying this as if undergraduates don't rent houses. Many of them do.
Original post by Katy2015
and do research at the department/faculty,
This is in no way different for undergraduate studies.
Original post by Katy2015
and that, again, the college is irrelevant (yet ironically postgraduates have to pay a £2000 or so 'college fee'? for what?)
Just because your college has little to do with you academically doesn't mean it has absolutely nothing to do with you. Your college is still going to perform its functions in everything else. Accommodation, safety, communications, Common Room funding, dining allowance, library provision, booking privileges, ball subsidies, matriculation, induction, welcoming, graduation, welfare support, complaints and queries, etc.
How much your college is in your life largely depends on you. Many graduates are very active in their colleges.
Original post by Katy2015
So why would anyone recommend doing a masters there for the name (unless there's a specific course/supervisor that could be useful)?
Employment statistics are (reasonably) better at graduate level than at undergraduate level.
Also, at graduate level, the many factors that are counted on the league tables are finally relevant: Research staff, support, expectation, equipments, training, etc matter to postgraduates and Oxbridge are much better in these areas compared to other universities.
Original post by Katy2015
It would seem to a casual observer that everything Oxford is known for (the college life,
Socially, there's no difference. The people are different, but that's because they are generally older, as graduates are usually more focused on their studies instead of socialising.
Original post by Katy2015
tutorials,
As a graduate student, you'd be expected to produce works that are above the level of argumentative essays they ask undergraduates to write, and hence there's little need for the tutorial system.
Instead, you have the supervision system to be supervised by your supervisor. But different courses have different approaches to this, and the content of your supervision varies.
One thing for sure is that an undergraduate's tutor is likely to just be a postgraduate student, but a postgraduate's supervision is an academic (research fellows or above), if not professors who may be big names in their field.
Original post by Katy2015
a quality of teaching that beats other institutions), has little or no relevance to a postgraduate.
You haven't established this point in your post at all. But if you're going for a research degree, once again, why are you focusing on teaching? It's like evaluating secondary schools based on whether the teacher accompanies you to the loo like they do in kindergartens.
Original post by Josb
You can live on-site in graduate colleges, such as Wolfson, Kellogg, St Antony's etc.
I'd also like to add that (on top of my other post on the support work colleges do to graduates) colleges do offer college-maintained accommodation to graduates at a reduced rent, and that is no different to what many colleges offer to their non-fresher undergraduates.
Some colleges, eg Linacre, also guarantee accommodation in the first year (though not sure if it's only for DPhil candidates).
Original post by Katy2015
I'm considering doing a masters after finishing my BA next year, and ive been told that Oxford is a good place to consider doing an MPhil, because of the name.
I can't say how this works for all disciplines, but it certainly seems that for law, having an Oxbridge postgraduate qualification (perhaps after another Russell Group undergrad, elsewhere or overseas) is considered a strong boost to your career.
You seem to have quite a few preconceptions about Oxford. I am not sure how open you are to other views, but I will give it a try anyway.
Postgrad teaching is focused in the department, unlike undergrad teaching that takes place both in college and the department. I have three supervisors/advisors: college advisor, course supervisor and dissertation supervisor. Depending on the stage of my course, I see one of them most frequently. Unlike undergrad that is largely spoon-fed and requires little independence, for postgrad it is up to the student to take charge of their studies and arrange meetings with their supervisors if they wish to meet.
In Balliol undergrads live in the main site for two out of four years, usually. The postgrad annex is 10 minutes from the main site, and its rooms are actually way better than those in the main site. Also, because the vast majority of postgrads live in this annex, there is a very strong sense of community and a vibrant MCR, which is IMO a strong advantage over college that have their postgrads scattered over various locations. You pay college fees for both the annex (staff, facilities) and the main college (staff, hall, library, chapel, etc.). Given that postgrad have access to both the main site and the annex, those college fees are well spent.
I would not recommend anyone to go there for the name. You should go there because of the course content and high quality teaching they offer. On top of that, there is a vibrant social life - yes, also for postgrads - offered by the college system.
Original post by Katy2015
There's also no tutorial system (which is what Oxford is known for); ive also read that postgrads barely even have any contact with their college supervisor. On the whole, the college seems more or less irrelevant to a postgraduate, at least academically.
I'm looking at the colleges (so far Balliol, Brasenose, Oriel) which teach the course I'm looking at. Why is it that graduates live 15 minutes from the main college site, while undergraduates get to live in the college? its sort of unfair (and I'm supposed to pay a £2,800 fee for NOT living in college? for not getting anything out it of academically??). I hope you understand where I'm coming from; everything I look at so far indicates a big bias against graduates.
So why would anyone recommend doing a masters there for the name (unless there's a specific course/supervisor that could be useful)? I'm not saying, I'm just asking. It would seem to a casual observer that everything Oxford is known for (the college life, tutorials, a quality of teaching that beats other institutions), has little or no relevance to a postgraduate.
Original post by Little Toy Gun
I'd also like to add that (on top of my other post on the support work colleges do to graduates) colleges do offer college-maintained accommodation to graduates at a reduced rent, and that is no different to what many colleges offer to their non-fresher undergraduates.
Some colleges, eg Linacre, also guarantee accommodation in the first year (though not sure if it's only for DPhil candidates).
Some colleges, eg Linacre, also guarantee accommodation in the first year (though not sure if it's only for DPhil candidates).
From what I've seen most colleges guarantee accommodation in the first year for foreign students.
Original post by Josb
From what I've seen most colleges guarantee accommodation in the first year for foreign students.
I don't know if OP is international. I know Linacre's guarantee extends to home students.
Original post by Katy2015
I'm looking at the colleges (so far Balliol, Brasenose, Oriel) which teach the course I'm looking at. Why is it that graduates live 15 minutes from the main college site, while undergraduates get to live in the college? its sort of unfair (and I'm supposed to pay a £2,800 fee for NOT living in college? for not getting anything out it of academically??). I hope you understand where I'm coming from; everything I look at so far indicates a big bias against graduates.
Just like to point out that I am at Oriel, and know several post-grads who live in 1st quad, so please don't tell me they live in the annex.
Original post by Katy2015
I'm looking at the colleges (so far Balliol, Brasenose, Oriel) which teach the course I'm looking at. Why is it that graduates live 15 minutes from the main college site, while undergraduates get to live in the college? its sort of unfair (and I'm supposed to pay a £2,800 fee for NOT living in college? for not getting anything out it of academically??). I hope you understand where I'm coming from; everything I look at so far indicates a big bias against graduates.
It's pragmatic. The postgrad academic year is 12mo, whereas the undergrad year is 6mo, thus leaving those room to be used as revenue-generating assets for the remainder of the year. In practice, the on-site rooms get rented out to conferences and american unis at exorbitant rates as much as possible.
As an undergrad if you want to stay up (over the vacation) you get booted out to an annex more often than not.
Original post by AnonymousPenguin
It's pragmatic. The postgrad academic year is 12mo, whereas the undergrad year is 6mo, thus leaving those room to be used as revenue-generating assets for the remainder of the year. In practice, the on-site rooms get rented out to conferences and american unis at exorbitant rates as much as possible.
As an undergrad if you want to stay up (over the vacation) you get booted out to an annex more often than not.
As an undergrad if you want to stay up (over the vacation) you get booted out to an annex more often than not.
I know Magdalen boots undergrads out for the ball as well.
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