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Why are doctors more respected and appreciated than nurses?
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Original post by KittyAnneR
I don't want to study medicine 
being a nurse is entirely different to being a doctor. I WANT to be a nurse.
being a nurse is entirely different to being a doctor. I WANT to be a nurse.he cant even google the nmc to know life long learning is necessary:P
Original post by Bill_Gates
Over the years as i've watched people pass away, nurses have been incredible. Really takes someone special to be a nurse and do it right.
Yes, thank you. It takes one type of person to be a doctor, one type of person to be a nurse. both are valuable
Original post by claireestelle
here is the house of lords list of subjects the ones in bold are considered stem. See group B.]
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201213/ldselect/ldsctech/37/3705.htm
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201213/ldselect/ldsctech/37/3705.htm
Original post by KittyAnneR
Nursing is STEM
Fair enough. I lose
Original post by KittyAnneR
It is clear and well-known (even just on TSR) how well respected doctors are. They have very high social status.
I don't think this is particularly true these days, no more so than any other career anyway.
I agree with you that they are different roles and to be honest I think comparing them is very unhelpful in the sense that both are needed and should accordingly value each other. The whole doctors versus nurses thing is so unnecessary and the source of so many superiority/inferiority complexes, the world would be a better place without them...
However I do think that it's a little bit misleading to imply that nursing is a hardcore scientific subject. It comprises some basic science, but most of it is practical work and experience. You have specialist nurses but they actually have a comparatively very very narrow remit of things they need to know, so they can act like doctors but it's like doctors who missed most of the curriculum and got really good at one thing. On the other hand, it's an absolutely necessary role to have people like that and specialist nurses are brilliant. Nurses add in a lot of common sense and (eventually) experience, as they're on the front line which is generally where only very junior doctors get sent, and often know the patient the best.
The sheer quantity of material and knowledge in a medical degree dwarfs what is in a nursing degree. The responsibility for making big decisions also tends to lie with doctors (although they consult with nursing staff). It takes a lot longer.
I mean I think the whole doctors versus nurses thing is a load of rubbish, as I said at the beginning, but those are the main differences and I think why there's different perceptions. Nursing is hardly frowned upon, I think the general public like and respect nurses to be honest! But you can't say that it's the same level of training/difficulty as a medical degree in the academic sense, just like you wouldn't say a medical degree equips all the same skills as a nurse has.
However I do think that it's a little bit misleading to imply that nursing is a hardcore scientific subject. It comprises some basic science, but most of it is practical work and experience. You have specialist nurses but they actually have a comparatively very very narrow remit of things they need to know, so they can act like doctors but it's like doctors who missed most of the curriculum and got really good at one thing. On the other hand, it's an absolutely necessary role to have people like that and specialist nurses are brilliant. Nurses add in a lot of common sense and (eventually) experience, as they're on the front line which is generally where only very junior doctors get sent, and often know the patient the best.
The sheer quantity of material and knowledge in a medical degree dwarfs what is in a nursing degree. The responsibility for making big decisions also tends to lie with doctors (although they consult with nursing staff). It takes a lot longer.
I mean I think the whole doctors versus nurses thing is a load of rubbish, as I said at the beginning, but those are the main differences and I think why there's different perceptions. Nursing is hardly frowned upon, I think the general public like and respect nurses to be honest! But you can't say that it's the same level of training/difficulty as a medical degree in the academic sense, just like you wouldn't say a medical degree equips all the same skills as a nurse has.
Original post by whydoidothis?
The content in a medicine degree is more difficult than a nursing degree, hence doctors tend to be more intelligent than nurses, there is a big difference between BBB and AAA.
You need more than grades to get onto a nursing course, a BBB alone wont get you on one, you need plenty of experience to get a chance at an interview.
Again in your eyes, grades equal intelligence, are you aware of the concept of emotional intelligence?
Something which you must show you have a good level of to be able to get onto a nursing course especially mental health and learning disability branches.
Original post by whydoidothis?
The content in a medicine degree is more difficult than a nursing degree, hence doctors tend to be more intelligent than nurses, there is a big difference between BBB and AAA.
Doctors haven't always needed three A's to get on a course.
Original post by KittyAnneR
Yes, thank you. It takes one type of person to be a doctor, one type of person to be a nurse. both are valuable
i wholeheartedly agree with kitty on this. there can be a difference in personalities when comparing nurses and doctors.
Original post by claireestelle
i d have said no without a doubt if i go offered medicine, especially as gps arent exactly good when working in mental health. Medicine is not the route to go down generally if you want to work in mental health like i do.
When you're a GP u don't have to work with other GP's, you could just be in a private clinic
Original post by Etomidate
I don't think this is particularly true these days, no more so than any other career anyway.
Why do you say that? Any particular reasons doctors might be less respected?
Original post by whydoidothis?
The content in a medicine degree is more difficult than a nursing degree, hence doctors tend to be more intelligent than nurses, there is a big difference between BBB and AAA.
You're hilarious and very ignorant. I sure hope you're not studying medicine because I would never want to work with you as long as you have such attitudes.
Just because a course generally asks for higher grades, doesn't mean another course has less intelligent people. It could be that people have lots of elements to their personalities that extend further than their academic abilities. Someone very intelligent might have the right qualiifcations to Study med, but might choose to do nursing as it suits their personality.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Shakz
When you're a GP u don't have to work with other GP's, you could just be in a private clinic
Gps do not specialise in mental health so i would never want to be one. Some of my friends have had awful experiences with gps and mental health treatment so put me off wanting to be one.
Original post by claireestelle
Gps do not specialise in mental health so i would never want to be one. Some of my friends have had awful experiences with gps and mental health treatment so put me off wanting to be one.
What about a psychiatrist?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by claireestelle
You need more than grades to get onto a nursing course, a BBB alone wont get you on one, you need plenty of experience to get a chance at an interview.
Again in your eyes, grades equal intelligence, are you aware of the concept of emotional intelligence?
Something which you must show you have a good level of to be able to get onto a nursing course especially mental health and learning disability branches.
Again in your eyes, grades equal intelligence, are you aware of the concept of emotional intelligence?
Something which you must show you have a good level of to be able to get onto a nursing course especially mental health and learning disability branches.
emotional intelligence is common sense, something you could fine tune with experience, your really biased obviously being a nurse. You also need plenty of experience for a medicine degree. Doctors also deal with mental health and disability.
Your work my be harder, you might have longer hours but it requires a lower state of intelligence.
Also this is just my opinion, if you don't like it please don't reply as your tone sounds as if your offended, if you want to carry on the debate go on.
I just think academic intelligence>emotional intelligence as emotional is easier to acquire.
Original post by NickEgg
Why do you say that? Any particular reasons doctors might be less respected?
I think the relationship between doctors and patients has evolved radically over the years. Patients see themselves as consumers more than ever, with some even believing that doctors are shopkeepers and that the patients can pick and choose whatever service they like.
Patients are also more critical and questioning, even mistrustful. This is pushed along by the haterags of the UK who encourage people to actively dislike doctors.
Long gone are the memories of pre-NHS life. Healthcare is no longer seen as a hard earned privilege but a commodity that should be delivered at the whim and convenience of the customer.
Original post by Ser Alex Toyne
I ve prefer the practical side of working with people hence MH nursing
Original post by claireestelle
Firstly, you re wrong on the lifelong learning, CPD hours are mandatory of you lose you re registration, see here (http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/583260/16.14_RCN_Factsheet_Continuing_Professional_Development_for_nurses_working_in_the_UK.pdf and here http://www.nmc.org.uk/registration/staying-on-the-register/renewing-your-registration/)
Secondly, i d like to debate your rigour arguement, both medicine and nursing are full time 5 days of lectures a week courses. Yes medicine is longer, however nursing is 45 weeks a year the whole 3 years, i dont believe medicine is 45 weeks each year? so does length mean much more in this case?
Thirdly, more work and stress as to getting onto medicine? They have the similar applicant to place ratios. As for medicine, do you need as much work experience to get onto a nursing?
Some nursing courses reject many applicants if they dont at least have a good few weeks experience. I did 2 months at two different mental health settings to get 4 nursing interviews, i got 4 rejections after a levels before one interview for not having enough experience, after 2 years volunteering and one weeks shadowing a nurse.
Especially childrens nursing, if you just said you d shadowed a nurse for that you d get rejected without interview without a doubt.
Secondly, i d like to debate your rigour arguement, both medicine and nursing are full time 5 days of lectures a week courses. Yes medicine is longer, however nursing is 45 weeks a year the whole 3 years, i dont believe medicine is 45 weeks each year? so does length mean much more in this case?
Thirdly, more work and stress as to getting onto medicine? They have the similar applicant to place ratios. As for medicine, do you need as much work experience to get onto a nursing?
Some nursing courses reject many applicants if they dont at least have a good few weeks experience. I did 2 months at two different mental health settings to get 4 nursing interviews, i got 4 rejections after a levels before one interview for not having enough experience, after 2 years volunteering and one weeks shadowing a nurse.
Especially childrens nursing, if you just said you d shadowed a nurse for that you d get rejected without interview without a doubt.
Thats probably because your a-level grades weren't good enough. forget that....what about the many years spent in training after medicine....around 6/7 unlike nursing...plus there are many more job prospects with medicine...look at all the different branches you can go down...but not nursing.
Lets face it, nurses do the dirty work...
Original post by claireestelle
I ve prefer the practical side of working with people hence MH nursing
That's good. I hope your aspiration become reality.
I find nurses personally a bit mainstream.
jkPosted from TSR Mobile
Original post by seaholme
I agree with you that they are different roles and to be honest I think comparing them is very unhelpful in the sense that both are needed and should accordingly value each other. The whole doctors versus nurses thing is so unnecessary and the source of so many superiority/inferiority complexes, the world would be a better place without them...
However I do think that it's a little bit misleading to imply that nursing is a hardcore scientific subject. It comprises some basic science, but most of it is practical work and experience. You have specialist nurses but they actually have a comparatively very very narrow remit of things they need to know, so they can act like doctors but it's like doctors who missed most of the curriculum and got really good at one thing. On the other hand, it's an absolutely necessary role to have people like that and specialist nurses are brilliant. Nurses add in a lot of common sense and (eventually) experience, as they're on the front line which is generally where only very junior doctors get sent, and often know the patient the best.
The sheer quantity of material and knowledge in a medical degree dwarfs what is in a nursing degree. The responsibility for making big decisions also tends to lie with doctors (although they consult with nursing staff). It takes a lot longer.
I mean I think the whole doctors versus nurses thing is a load of rubbish, as I said at the beginning, but those are the main differences and I think why there's different perceptions. Nursing is hardly frowned upon, I think the general public like and respect nurses to be honest! But you can't say that it's the same level of training/difficulty as a medical degree in the academic sense, just like you wouldn't say a medical degree equips all the same skills as a nurse has.
However I do think that it's a little bit misleading to imply that nursing is a hardcore scientific subject. It comprises some basic science, but most of it is practical work and experience. You have specialist nurses but they actually have a comparatively very very narrow remit of things they need to know, so they can act like doctors but it's like doctors who missed most of the curriculum and got really good at one thing. On the other hand, it's an absolutely necessary role to have people like that and specialist nurses are brilliant. Nurses add in a lot of common sense and (eventually) experience, as they're on the front line which is generally where only very junior doctors get sent, and often know the patient the best.
The sheer quantity of material and knowledge in a medical degree dwarfs what is in a nursing degree. The responsibility for making big decisions also tends to lie with doctors (although they consult with nursing staff). It takes a lot longer.
I mean I think the whole doctors versus nurses thing is a load of rubbish, as I said at the beginning, but those are the main differences and I think why there's different perceptions. Nursing is hardly frowned upon, I think the general public like and respect nurses to be honest! But you can't say that it's the same level of training/difficulty as a medical degree in the academic sense, just like you wouldn't say a medical degree equips all the same skills as a nurse has.
Thank you for your response, it is much appreciated
and more constructive than most. Firstly, I want to clarify that I don't have an inferiority complex. I firmly believe that doctors and nurses are two completely different degrees and I thought I commuincated that properly in my OP. Maybe I didn't come across the way I wanted to.I never implied that nursing is a hard science, I stated that nursing is a STEM subject as defined by the law. Saying that, I know that it doesn't include the volume of scientific study as medicine and can be considered soft in that sense. When I said 'so do nurses' I was referring to physical AND academic work. I don't personally think that doctors work harder OVERALL. I think there are different types of 'hard work'.
I am only interested in why some people have the idea that nurses are like the understudies of doctors, because as you know, they're not. You've highlighted some good points though, so thank you.
Original post by claireestelle
Gps do not specialise in mental health so i would never want to be one. Some of my friends have had awful experiences with gps and mental health treatment so put me off wanting to be one.
GPs actually see the majority of those with mental health issues, given that most mental health presents directly to primary care, - but they also only have 10 minutes in which to filter out any physical health issues and filter the patient down the correct route. Those working in psychiatric services have oodles of time to sit and talk to patients properly, often with half hour consultations or longer where they focus purely on that, so invariably patient experience is much better as time is invaluable with mental health in a way that it isn't needed in physical conditions.
I think it is more than a little blinkered to say that they're all awful and that they don't specialise in mental health, when to be honest that's a really huge part of your work as a GP...
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