anjolao
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Hi guys!

I have just found out that I am graduating from the University of Nottingham with a 2:2 in my LLB which of course is upsetting. I do have extenuating circumstances from an illness and depression which has really clouded my motivation and self confidence throughout my time at university, and to be fair the lecturers I know and the law school in general have been amazing about it and all have said that they will give me strong references as they know I am capable and are proud of what I have achieved despite everything.

I am taking a year out as I feel that it will be the best thing for me to clear my head and really focus on getting better physically and mentally. I am interested in public international law, human rights and consumer protection law.

I am in a dilemma though. I want to do an LLM because I genuinely have loved studying law but I want to go to a good institution nevertheless where I can really prove myself. Any suggestions anyone? One lecturer who is the head of undergraduates said that I should still apply for unis with 2:1 requirements that are not too strict as I do have mitigating circumstances. I have also considered studying in the Netherlands such as Leiden and Utrecht Universities as they are really good for human rights, but on their admissions website there is nothing about grade classifications; just a degree. Also, do you know any universities that are renowned for consumer law as I couldn't find one...

Also, because I really want to be a barrister (after unexpectedly loving a mini-pupillage I applied for on a whim) I know that academic excellence is paramount. So should I take another a level (have As in English Literature and Politics, but a B in Fine Art) to get an A or A* in and try my hand at applying to Oxford for PPE to help aid with consumer law, especially noting economics? Also this may be a dumb question but is it legal to have an LLB plus a BA degree in Jurisprudence from Oxford by any chance? I don't want to come across as an oxbridge nut haha but they're the only unis I think apart from Nottingham that do the BA in law.

I know that all these options understandably are expensive but I really want to prove myself and I genuinely want to study law further as I really like it. I will be working full time for the year so should be able to raise some funds at least.

Any advice would be appreciated so much and sorry for the rambling!
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beautifulbigmacs
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You don't need another A Level.

Apply to places regardless of the entry requirements they state. Lots of unis will be willing to judge someone on their own merits. I know this from my own experience.
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Carnationlilyrose
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(Original post by anjolao)
Hi guys!

I have just found out that I am graduating from the University of Nottingham with a 2:2 in my LLB which of course is upsetting. I do have extenuating circumstances from an illness and depression which has really clouded my motivation and self confidence throughout my time at university, and to be fair the lecturers I know and the law school in general have been amazing about it and all have said that they will give me strong references as they know I am capable and are proud of what I have achieved despite everything.

I am taking a year out as I feel that it will be the best thing for me to clear my head and really focus on getting better physically and mentally. I am interested in public international law, human rights and consumer protection law.

I am in a dilemma though. I want to do an LLM because I genuinely have loved studying law but I want to go to a good institution nevertheless where I can really prove myself. Any suggestions anyone? One lecturer who is the head of undergraduates said that I should still apply for unis with 2:1 requirements that are not too strict as I do have mitigating circumstances. I have also considered studying in the Netherlands such as Leiden and Utrecht Universities as they are really good for human rights, but on their admissions website there is nothing about grade classifications; just a degree. Also, do you know any universities that are renowned for consumer law as I couldn't find one...

Also, because I really want to be a barrister (after unexpectedly loving a mini-pupillage I applied for on a whim) I know that academic excellence is paramount. So should I take another a level (have As in English Literature and Politics, but a B in Fine Art) to get an A or A* in and try my hand at applying to Oxford for PPE to help aid with consumer law, especially noting economics? Also this may be a dumb question but is it legal to have an LLB plus a BA degree in Jurisprudence from Oxford by any chance? I don't want to come across as an oxbridge nut haha but they're the only unis I think apart from Nottingham that do the BA in law.

I know that all these options understandably are expensive but I really want to prove myself and I genuinely want to study law further as I really like it. I will be working full time for the year so should be able to raise some funds at least.

Any advice would be appreciated so much and sorry for the rambling!
Can't answer any of your questions, but wanted to make sure that you are aware that doing a second degree (I think that's what you are saying you want to do, yes?) will entitle you to no student finance whatever, including tuition fee loan, so whatever you plan on working as will need to be very well paid indeed. I personally don't think it'd be worth it, but only you can judge that one.
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Ftmshk
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Can't you do it at Nottingham?


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nulli tertius
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(Original post by anjolao)
Hi guys!

I have just found out that I am graduating from the University of Nottingham with a 2:2 in my LLB which of course is upsetting. I do have extenuating circumstances from an illness and depression which has really clouded my motivation and self confidence throughout my time at university, and to be fair the lecturers I know and the law school in general have been amazing about it and all have said that they will give me strong references as they know I am capable and are proud of what I have achieved despite everything.

I am taking a year out as I feel that it will be the best thing for me to clear my head and really focus on getting better physically and mentally. I am interested in public international law, human rights and consumer protection law.

I am in a dilemma though. I want to do an LLM because I genuinely have loved studying law but I want to go to a good institution nevertheless where I can really prove myself. Any suggestions anyone? One lecturer who is the head of undergraduates said that I should still apply for unis with 2:1 requirements that are not too strict as I do have mitigating circumstances. I have also considered studying in the Netherlands such as Leiden and Utrecht Universities as they are really good for human rights, but on their admissions website there is nothing about grade classifications; just a degree. Also, do you know any universities that are renowned for consumer law as I couldn't find one...

Also, because I really want to be a barrister (after unexpectedly loving a mini-pupillage I applied for on a whim) I know that academic excellence is paramount. So should I take another a level (have As in English Literature and Politics, but a B in Fine Art) to get an A or A* in and try my hand at applying to Oxford for PPE to help aid with consumer law, especially noting economics? Also this may be a dumb question but is it legal to have an LLB plus a BA degree in Jurisprudence from Oxford by any chance? I don't want to come across as an oxbridge nut haha but they're the only unis I think apart from Nottingham that do the BA in law.

I know that all these options understandably are expensive but I really want to prove myself and I genuinely want to study law further as I really like it. I will be working full time for the year so should be able to raise some funds at least.

Any advice would be appreciated so much and sorry for the rambling!
The general view, which I share is that an LLM does not "repair" a disappointed undergraduate performance.

Realistically you are not going to be accepted for Oxford for a second undergraduate degree.

It will be difficult (but not impossible) to get a career with a solicitors' firm with a 2:2.

Although there are pupil barristers with 2:2s they are almost certainly people with enormous string pulling capability or more probably they are converting solicitors or overseas lawyers with years, perhaps decades, of experience.

I am not sure that at this point a further piece of paper is what you need. You should be aiming to get a toe in the door of the world of work.

I see you have an interest in consumer law. Have you considered Trading Standards?
http://www.allhorshamjobs.com/job.cf...ampaign=Indeed
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sj27
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Realistically you are not going to be accepted for Oxford for a second undergraduate degree.
Agreed. Oxford will not look at a new A level combined with previous ones given that they will have a direct indication of how the student fares at undergrad level.

Although if OP does love studying then maybe the Dutch universities are a good option.
OP, what do you plan to do in your year out?
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beautifulbigmacs
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I guarantee you op that one or more llm courses in the country will offer you a place with a 2:2 of you're willing to keep an open mind about where you study.

A love of your subject is perfectly good enough reason to do further study with a 2:2
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anjolao
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(Original post by Ftmshk)
Can't you do it at Nottingham?


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My tutor suggested that so I will apply there
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anjolao
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Agreed. Oxford will not look at a new A level combined with previous ones given that they will have a direct indication of how the student fares at undergrad level.

Although if OP does love studying then maybe the Dutch universities are a good option.
OP, what do you plan to do in your year out?
Yeah I figured Oxford may be a bit of a long shot!

I am doing a summer internship at a corporate firm specialising in corporate immigration law then I am going to be a caseworker at an immigration law firm for the year which is good legal experience I guess. I also want to try and volunteer at the free representation unit too if I have time to do that.

I think studying in the Netherlands would be pretty cool just for a new life experience and I reckon it could look quite good on the CV for doing something a bit different
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anjolao
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
The general view, which I share is that an LLM does not "repair" a disappointed undergraduate performance.

Realistically you are not going to be accepted for Oxford for a second undergraduate degree.

It will be difficult (but not impossible) to get a career with a solicitors' firm with a 2:2.

Although there are pupil barristers with 2:2s they are almost certainly people with enormous string pulling capability or more probably they are converting solicitors or overseas lawyers with years, perhaps decades, of experience.

I am not sure that at this point a further piece of paper is what you need. You should be aiming to get a toe in the door of the world of work.

I see you have an interest in consumer law. Have you considered Trading Standards?
http://www.allhorshamjobs.com/job.cf...ampaign=Indeed
Completely didn't think of trading standards- will check that out!
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anjolao
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(Original post by laurakate1988)
I guarantee you op that one or more llm courses in the country will offer you a place with a 2:2 of you're willing to keep an open mind about where you study.

A love of your subject is perfectly good enough reason to do further study with a 2:2
Aww thanks for the encouragement i'm hoping that the admissions people will consider my extenuating circumstances and really see that I do love law as a subject and know that I'm not doing it merely as a means to an end.
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anjolao
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Which universities do you think would be understand and possibly accommodating considering my circumstances but still have a reputation compared to Nottingham or perhaps a bit better? Thanks for all the advice everyone, appreciate it alot and it's cheered me up
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beautifulbigmacs
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Anything to help a fellow 2:2 person it's never done me any harm.

My first piece of advice is to throw the whole reputation thing out of the window. I've been to one Russel Group and two ex polys and they're all much of a muchness the job you get will come down to you and not the name and reputation of the uni.

I wouldn't even say that it's necessary to make a big thing about your exceptional circumstances in your application. Mention it breifly in your personal statement at most but the bulk of your personal statement should be about your love of the subject and enthusiasm to continue your studies.

Good luck

(Original post by anjolao)
Which universities do you think would be understand and possibly accommodating considering my circumstances but still have a reputation compared to Nottingham or perhaps a bit better? Thanks for all the advice everyone, appreciate it alot and it's cheered me up
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sj27
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(Original post by anjolao)
Yeah I figured Oxford may be a bit of a long shot!

I am doing a summer internship at a corporate firm specialising in corporate immigration law then I am going to be a caseworker at an immigration law firm for the year which is good legal experience I guess. I also want to try and volunteer at the free representation unit too if I have time to do that.

I think studying in the Netherlands would be pretty cool just for a new life experience and I reckon it could look quite good on the CV for doing something a bit different
Sounds like some great plans, that could both help you confirm what you want to do and just possibly help give an edge on a postgrad application too.

My cousin is studying in the Netherlands at the moment and loves it!!
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anjolao
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(Original post by laurakate1988)
Anything to help a fellow 2:2 person it's never done me any harm.

My first piece of advice is to throw the whole reputation thing out of the window. I've been to one Russel Group and two ex polys and they're all much of a muchness the job you get will come down to you and not the name and reputation of the uni.

I wouldn't even say that it's necessary to make a big thing about your exceptional circumstances in your application. Mention it breifly in your personal statement at most but the bulk of your personal statement should be about your love of the subject and enthusiasm to continue your studies.

Good luck
Thanks for your advice, really grateful
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anjolao
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(Original post by sj27)
Sounds like some great plans, that could both help you confirm what you want to do and just possibly help give an edge on a postgrad application too.

My cousin is studying in the Netherlands at the moment and loves it!!
I'm hoping it will do haha and awesome! It's really been growing on me the more I consider it thanks for all your advice though!
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304820
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
The general view, which I share is that an LLM does not "repair" a disappointed undergraduate performance.

Realistically you are not going to be accepted for Oxford for a second undergraduate degree.

It will be difficult (but not impossible) to get a career with a solicitors' firm with a 2:2.

Although there are pupil barristers with 2:2s they are almost certainly people with enormous string pulling capability or more probably they are converting solicitors or overseas lawyers with years, perhaps decades, of experience.

I am not sure that at this point a further piece of paper is what you need. You should be aiming to get a toe in the door of the world of work.

I see you have an interest in consumer law. Have you considered Trading Standards?
http://www.allhorshamjobs.com/job.cf...ampaign=Indeed
Basically what this user said. A second undergraduate degree will entitle you to no student finance and I share the view that Oxbridge are not going to want someone with a 2.2 from a "lesser" institution.

An LLM will cost something like £5,000. To get onto the Bar Professional Training Course you will need something in the region of £12,000 - £18,000 and completing that is no guarantee of actually making it a barrister. What about accommodation costs? A BPTC course might let you on with a Desmond but it would only be because they want your money. See
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/...ng-a-barrister

Irrespective of your mitigating circumstances Nottingham’s Law Department has a bit of a reputation for giving out lots of 2.2s. 29.9% get this classification according to Unistats! While this isn’t much help to the OP prospective students need to think long and hard about firming a place there.
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anjolao
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(Original post by 304820)
Basically what this user said. A second undergraduate degree will entitle you to no student finance and I share the view that Oxbridge are not going to want someone with a 2.2 from a "lesser" institution.

An LLM will cost something like £5,000. To get onto the Bar Professional Training Course you will need something in the region of £12,000 - £18,000 and completing that is no guarantee of actually making it a barrister. What about accommodation costs? A BPTC course might let you on with a Desmond but it would only be because they want your money. See
http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/...ng-a-barrister

Irrespective of your mitigating circumstances Nottingham’s Law Department has a bit of a reputation for giving out lots of 2.2s. 29.9% get this classification according to Unistats! While this isn’t much help to the OP prospective students need to think long and hard about firming a place there.
Regarding the costs of an LLM, it will be a joint combination from myself and my parents so I am alright in that regards. For the BPTC I know it is expensive, but accommodation wise I will be living at home so that's not too much of an issue. I know Nottingham has that reputation sadly, but I guess I have comfort in both myself and the Nottingham Law School knowing that if I had no issues during my time there, I would have gotten a good 2.1.
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304820
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(Original post by anjolao)
Regarding the costs of an LLM, it will be a joint combination from myself and my parents so I am alright in that regards. For the BPTC I know it is expensive, but accommodation wise I will be living at home so that's not too much of an issue. I know Nottingham has that reputation sadly, but I guess I have comfort in both myself and the Nottingham Law School knowing that if I had no issues during my time there, I would have gotten a good 2.1.
At the end of the day it is your money. All I’m saying is that if you go down the route of LLM > BPTC you will get into about 20k worth of debt. I can’t find more recent figures but in 2012 1,600 took the BPTC with 446 pupillages on offer. Even accepting that some of those are international students going back to Singapore or Hong Kong or wherever the odds are not great. To me it looks like a Ponzi scheme but it is your life.
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anjolao
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(Original post by 304820)
At the end of the day it is your money. All I’m saying is that if you go down the route of LLM > BPTC you will get into about 20k worth of debt. I can’t find more recent figures but in 2012 1,600 took the BPTC with 446 pupillages on offer. Even accepting that some of those are international students going back to Singapore or Hong Kong or wherever the odds are not great. To me it looks like a Ponzi scheme but it is your life.
Sorry, I think I didn't clarify myself well, but I meant to add that I'm still trying to fully figure out what to do. I would love to be a barrister but yes the prospects of the cost of the BPTC are very scary...but then again so is the LPC. I have been told both by the careers advisor and the head of law undergrads that I could still apply for training contracts with smaller city firms (which is where I would want to work anyway, definitely not about the soul destroying magic circle life). I'm just trying to keep my options open for life's outcomes, and I think with my degree classification that really is key.

Regarding the LLM I want to do it regardless because like I mentioned in my original post, I genuinely enjoy law as a subject and I want to study it further, and my parents and I can jointly fund that ourselves so that won't put me in debt.

Getting into the legal career is an investment anyway, and most people are who really want to either be a barrister, solicitor or enter academia know that before the thought of training contracts and scholarships enter their minds.

I completely get what you are saying though.
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