This whole "fluid gender" thing.. Watch

The Wavefunction
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I'm struggling to understand this genderqueer/fluid gender thing going on at the minute. If you have a male reproductive system, you are a male. If you have a female reproductive system, you are a female.
You can't just choose to be a certain gender one day and a different the next. Dress whatever you want as well, but don't be asking for a third gender, it doesn't exist.

Transgender is a whole different kettle of fish, you have the surgery and hormone replacement stuff then that's fine, identify what you want.
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HigherMinion
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(Original post by The Wavefunction)

Transgender is a whole different kettle of fish, you have the surgery and hormone replacement stuff then that's fine, identify what you want.
This amendment seems like spineless face saving.
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ChickenMadness
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(Original post by HigherMinion)
This amendment seems like spineless face saving.
Seems more like he's stating his views straight up lol
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an_atheist
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(Original post by HigherMinion)
This amendment seems like spineless face saving.
No, its a different matter entirely. A transgender identifies as the opposite gender, and undergoes surgery to be like that gender. Fluid gender flit between identifying as male or female on a semi-regular basis, which is not the same, as they don't go through the same things as trans people..
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Mad Vlad
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(Original post by The Wavefunction)
I'm struggling to understand this genderqueer/fluid gender thing going on at the minute. If you have a male reproductive system, you are a male. If you have a female reproductive system, you are a female.
You can't just choose to be a certain gender one day and a different the next. Dress whatever you want as well, but don't be asking for a third gender, it doesn't exist.

Transgender is a whole different kettle of fish, you have the surgery and hormone replacement stuff then that's fine, identify what you want.
Gender != Sex.

2/10, must try harder.
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HigherMinion
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(Original post by ionic-insomniac)
Firstly, referring to someone's lifestyle choice as "bad" is clear bigotry. You have every right to disagree and I can understand that some may have a hard time understanding the ideas, but to address your statement, transexuality is not Communism 2.0. The idea of gender is a lot more complex than biological sex. Fair enough, your reproductive system is either male or female, unless obviously you were born intersex, but besides biology, there's a lot that makes up your gender. Traits, interests, personal qualities, expectations etc. It's not as clear cut as "yeah lol, he has a wang" and while you disagree, that doesn't give you the right to bash it like it's hell incarnate. If someone chooses to live their life with a pretty fluid idea of their identity, who the hell cares? Putting time and energy into hating on someone's lifestyle choice pretty much makes you at fault.
Clearly bigotry, yes. I am the devil incarnate. Let me break down your misunderstandings:

Biological sex and gender are the same. To claim otherwise is to deny reality for some kind of unnatural hugbox world where nothing is inherently true. A world of subjective reality. We do not live in this world. 2+2=4.

Now, I didn't claim it was a bad life choice in my post, but I did say it was a mental disorder. You can't fight that. Now, dear God, do you think to be slightly less stereotypically macho makes you a girl? This is absolutely bonkers. Do you believe a man is justified in spending thousands of dorra to have their knackers off because they don't like football or have a naturally dainty figure (not that I've seen any trans dudes with dainty figures)? That's hilariously naive. You believe that you must LOOK like the way you behave sociologically 100% of the time. Is this what the academics in womens studies are telling you?

(Original post by Mad Vlad)
Gender != Sex.2/10, must try harder.
You're only correct on paper and officially. In reality, you are wrong. So very wrong.
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username521617
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It's a recent trend that seems to be more prevalent among young people. Unlike transsexualism, it doesn't have any supporting psychiatric recognition.

Call me bigoted, but I think it's just teens being teens and rebelling against social norms in an effort to carve out their own unique identities. Or they're just having trouble coming to grips with their sexuality.
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Mad Vlad
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(Original post by HigherMinion)
You're only correct on paper and officially. In reality, you are wrong. So very wrong.
Why? Because some bigoted child on a student forum says so? I don't think so. Jog on.
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tazarooni89
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(Original post by ionic-insomniac)
there's a lot that makes up your gender. Traits, interests, personal qualities, expectations etc.
It seems strange to me to say that these things make up your "gender", as though whether or not you are a man or woman is defined based on these characteristics. Could you explain a bit more about how this supposedly works?

For example, I have a male body, and therefore consider myself to be a man. But what kind of traits, interests, personal qualities and expectations would I need to exhibit in order for my gender to actually be "woman"? What exactly is the definition of "woman", according to you? What is the difference between a man who happens to exhibit lots of personality traits, interests etc. more typical of women, and an actual woman?
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The Wavefunction
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(Original post by Dandaman1)
It's a recent trend that seems to be more prevalent among young people. Unlike transsexualism, it doesn't have any supporting psychiatric recognition.

Call me bigoted, but I think it's just teens being teens and rebelling against social norms in an effort to carve out their own unique identities. Or they're just having trouble coming to grips with their sexuality.
I agree. It's the same with all these various sexual orientations that people keep coming up with. What on earth is pansexual?!
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blackened_sky
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(Original post by Mad Vlad)
Why? Because some bigoted child on a student forum says so? I don't think so. Jog on.
If only it would let me upvote you again.



The only thing I don't understand about all this is why people who aren't affected by it get their knickers in a twist over it.

Just accept that some people don't identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. Some people don't identify as one single gender. Some people don't identify as any gender. It doesn't hurt you in any way whatsoever, just let them get on with it, it's their life ffs. Who the hell are you to tell them how they feel?
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driftawaay
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Okay, some people are genderqueer. Which means 'a person who does not subscribe to conventional gender distinctions but identifies with neither, both, or a combination of male and female genders.' This is not a 'fad' or whatever, this is real.

However, it is true that this is becoming a trend lately and I really don't like how the media presents this. Like in the last few weeks I've seen tons of articles on the Internet where Jaden Smith is being labeled 'gender fluid' and things like that when he has never, ever said he is, but they assigned him this label just because he wore a skirt to prom.... and of course now Miley Cyrus has decided that she is a bisexual genderqueer person, which is ridiculous because she is neither. I am afraid that people like her are making a fad out of this and that is not helping queer people, at all. This is like all those attention whores pretending to be bisexual just because they kissed someone of the same sex when they were drunk 5 years ago. It undermines the struggles of actual queer people and as evidenced by this thread, when people start bandwagoning, people who aren't aware of LGBT issues will assume that this is just some stupid trend. I would love to slap people like Miley Cyrus across the face for being such dumb****s.
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blackened_sky
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(Original post by The Wavefunction)
I agree. It's the same with all these various sexual orientations that people keep coming up with. What on earth is pansexual?!
"Pansexuality, or omnisexuality, is sexual attraction, romantic love, or emotional attraction toward people of any sex or gender identity."

Google is your friend.
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driftawaay
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(Original post by Mad Vlad)
Why? Because some bigoted child on a student forum says so? I don't think so. Jog on.
That HigherMinion person is seriously mentally ill or a troll, he is obsessed with gay stuff and posts in every gay thread. Just ignore him, seriously lol
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rachu
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(Original post by tazarooni89)
It seems strange to me to say that these things make up your "gender", as though whether or not you are a man or woman is defined based on these characteristics. Could you explain a bit more about how this supposedly works?

For example, I have a male body, and therefore consider myself to be a man. But what kind of traits, interests, personal qualities and expectations would I need to exhibit in order for my gender to actually be "woman"? What exactly is the definition of "woman", according to you? What is the difference between a man who happens to exhibit lots of personality traits, interests etc. more typical of women, and an actual woman?
This is what I've been wondering as well. I have no problem with people identifying as any gender but i dont exactly get what they mean by gender. Besides the actual sex organs, surely you've got the right to be any person. What are the exact traits that make up a "gender" ? And if i define a new set of traits, would that be a new "gender" ?
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The Wavefunction
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(Original post by blackened_sky)
If only it would let me upvote you again.



The only thing I don't understand about all this is why people who aren't affected by it get their knickers in a twist over it.

Just accept that some people don't identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. Some people don't identify as one single gender. Some people don't identify as any gender. It doesn't hurt you in any way whatsoever, just let them get on with it, it's their life ffs. Who the hell are you to tell them how they feel?
You may not identify as a particular gender, but ultimately you ARE one particular gender. Male or female.
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The Wavefunction
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(Original post by blackened_sky)
"Pansexuality, or omnisexuality, is sexual attraction, romantic love, or emotional attraction toward people of any sex or gender identity."

Google is your friend.
That's bisexual, surely?
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driftawaay
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(Original post by tazarooni89)
It seems strange to me to say that these things make up your "gender", as though whether or not you are a man or woman is defined based on these characteristics. Could you explain a bit more about how this supposedly works?

For example, I have a male body, and therefore consider myself to be a man. But what kind of traits, interests, personal qualities and expectations would I need to exhibit in order for my gender to actually be "woman"? What exactly is the definition of "woman", according to you? What is the difference between a man who happens to exhibit lots of personality traits, interests etc. more typical of women, and an actual woman?

Men and women have different brain structures. Whether we identify as male or female doesn't depend on whether we like stereotypically male things or stereotypically female things. But gender identity is ingrained in our brains, we all know whether we are boys or girls even when we are toddlers. Do you remember a time in your life when you didn't know you were a boy? Transgendered kids often tell their parents they are the opposite sex when they are only two or three years old. A transgendered person may have their brains wired like a female but have the genitals of a male for example. Therefore they would identify as female and feel like their body is wrong. You don't feel like that because your genitals and brain are both male. Imagine that you got kidnapped, sedated and someone performed a sex change on you. You wake up with a vagina and tits but then would you be like 'I'm a female, lets go buy some high heels and find a husband', nope! You would still be a male with a male brain and you would feel like your body does not belong to you. You wouldnt identify as a woman and you wouldnt suddenly start being interested in painting your nails or applying make up or whatever. Your gender is not only your genitals, everything about us is in our brain, and it some cases people's genitals and brains do not match.
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blackened_sky
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(Original post by The Wavefunction)
You may not identify as a particular gender, but ultimately you ARE one particular gender. Male or female.
Like has already been pointed out, gender is not the same as biological sex.

"Gender identity is a person's private sense and subjective experience of their own gender."

(Original post by The Wavefunction)
That's bisexual, surely?
Bisexual people won't necessarily find transgender (and other non-binaries) people attractive, pansexuals do. Because bisexual is "bi" it usually just refers to men and women. Pansexual is more inclusive. Obviously there will be bisexual people who feel the same as pansexuals, but may still just refer to themselves as bisexual, because it's easier than having to explain.
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driftawaay
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(Original post by ionic-insomniac)
Firstly, referring to someone's lifestyle choice as "bad" is clear bigotry. You have every right to disagree and I can understand that some may have a hard time understanding the ideas, but to address your statement, transexuality is not Communism 2.0. The idea of gender is a lot more complex than biological sex. Fair enough, your reproductive system is either male or female, unless obviously you were born intersex, but besides biology, there's a lot that makes up your gender. Traits, interests, personal qualities, expectations etc. It's not as clear cut as "yeah lol, he has a wang" and while you disagree, that doesn't give you the right to bash it like it's hell incarnate. If someone chooses to live their life with a pretty fluid idea of their identity, who the hell cares? Putting time and energy into hating on someone's lifestyle choice pretty much makes you at fault.
Gender is not a lifestyle choice. I'm sure your being a female isn't a lifestyle choice. Going to yoga classes every week and eating organic food is a lifestyle choice.
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