UKIP. What's it about? Anyone support it and why. Watch

aaronlowe
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Just want to hash it out. There must be some rational reason.
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ALevelBro
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They support Putin which automatically makes them idiots.
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Need2Study4Exam
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Ukip is an irrelevence.

Nigel Farage is going to crash this EU referendum by sticking his fat ass into the "out" campaign and making it unvotable. I am anti EU, but Nigel Farage is such an extraordinary man, he could make me vote to stay in.

Ukip is not an "UK independence party", it is just a vanity project for Mr Farage et al.
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Need2Study4Exam
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(Original post by ALevelBro)
They support Putin which automatically makes them idiots.
Not really. Most countries have a bad side to them. The UK and the US included. I think that Russia acts as a balancing force against the US, so I don't mind them in that respect.
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ChoccyPhilly
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(Original post by aaronlowe)
Just want to hash it out. There must be some rational reason.
My dad and sister openly supported them (i don't live with them) and at first i thought it was absurd but here's why:

They both live in a shared house of around 10 strangers in London, with shared bathrooms etc. What happened recently is that a disabled romanian man took residence, someone who can barely walk without assistance and for some reason requires a potty to go to the loo. Upstairs, where my dad and sister are, there are two toilets, one with a shower and one with just a toilet and a very bad sink. So, the romanian guy (whom they refer to as "potty") does nothing. My sister says that when she leaves for work, he's downstairs watching tv. When she gets back from work 10 hours later, he's still there. He's incredibly inconsiderate by refusing to chip on the a cleaner every week, which is apparently the tradition in that house, and due to his need to use a potty for the loo, he has permanently placed his potty on the loo without the shower. So fine, right? Well, no, he never cleans the toilet; the bowl is apparently full of shiit and that no one upstairs dares to use it anymore and it was so bad that he clogged it up and now moved his potty into the bathroom with the shower, leaving a clogged up, filthy toilet behind. Outrage? sure. The landlady spoke to him and he was adamant that he didn't care. She threatened to kick him out and BOOM, he brings in the council and gets MORE benefits and now everyone in the house is stuck with him and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

There's so much more to this but this is the general gist.

Point is, i may not agree but i haven't one through these kind of things, living in rural norfolk (and when i did live in london, we had our own place). It's frustrating that my dad and sister knows that they pay tax so people like him can scavenge off the system and send money back home whilst doing nothing. To them, nigel farage is the most logical person in the universe.

I don't agree, but i don't understand their turmoil either and i think i can safely say that most UKIP haters will never experience this kind of situation either.

Now what do you think about this?
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harry734
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(Original post by ChoccyPhilly)
My dad and sister openly supported them (i don't live with them) and at first i thought it was absurd but here's why:

They both live in a shared house of around 10 strangers in London, with shared bathrooms etc. What happened recently is that a disabled romanian man took residence, someone who can barely walk without assistance and for some reason requires a potty to go to the loo. Upstairs, where my dad and sister are, there are two toilets, one with a shower and one with just a toilet and a very bad sink. So, the romanian guy (whom they refer to as "potty" does nothing. My sister says that when she leaves for work, he's downstairs watching tv. When she gets back from work 10 hours later, he's still there. He's incredibly inconsiderate by refusing to chip on the a cleaner every week, which is apparently the tradition in that house, and due to his need to use a potty for the loo, he has permanently placed his potty on the loo without the shower. So fine, right? Well, no, he never cleans the toilet; the bowl is apparently full of shiit and that no one upstairs dares to use it anymore and it was so bad that he clogged it up and now moved his potty into the bathroom with the shower, leaving a clogged up, filthy toilet behind. Outrage? sure. The landlady spoke to him and he was adamant that he didn't care. She threatened to kick him out and BOOM, he brings in the council and gets MORE benefits and now everyone in the house is stuck with him and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

There's so much more to this but this is the general gist.

Point is, i may not agree but i haven't one through these kind of things, living in rural norfolk (and when i did live in london, we had our own place). It's frustrating that my dad and sister knows that they pay tax so people like him can scavenge off the system and send money back home whilst doing nothing. To them, nigel farage is the most logical person in the universe.

I don't agree, but i don't understand their turmoil either and i think i can safely say that most UKIP haters will never experience this kind of situation either.

Now what do you think about this?
This is an extreme case though... the damage UKIP would do to the country with all of their plans/policies would not be worth removing the handful of people that abuse the system. Sorry, but potty's staying.
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aaronlowe
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(Original post by ChoccyPhilly)
My dad and sister openly supported them (i don't live with them) and at first i thought it was absurd but here's why:

They both live in a shared house of around 10 strangers in London, with shared bathrooms etc. What happened recently is that a disabled romanian man took residence, someone who can barely walk without assistance and for some reason requires a potty to go to the loo. Upstairs, where my dad and sister are, there are two toilets, one with a shower and one with just a toilet and a very bad sink. So, the romanian guy (whom they refer to as "potty" does nothing. My sister says that when she leaves for work, he's downstairs watching tv. When she gets back from work 10 hours later, he's still there. He's incredibly inconsiderate by refusing to chip on the a cleaner every week, which is apparently the tradition in that house, and due to his need to use a potty for the loo, he has permanently placed his potty on the loo without the shower. So fine, right? Well, no, he never cleans the toilet; the bowl is apparently full of shiit and that no one upstairs dares to use it anymore and it was so bad that he clogged it up and now moved his potty into the bathroom with the shower, leaving a clogged up, filthy toilet behind. Outrage? sure. The landlady spoke to him and he was adamant that he didn't care. She threatened to kick him out and BOOM, he brings in the council and gets MORE benefits and now everyone in the house is stuck with him and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

There's so much more to this but this is the general gist.

Point is, i may not agree but i haven't one through these kind of things, living in rural norfolk (and when i did live in london, we had our own place). It's frustrating that my dad and sister knows that they pay tax so people like him can scavenge off the system and send money back home whilst doing nothing. To them, nigel farage is the most logical person in the universe.

I don't agree, but i don't understand their turmoil either and i think i can safely say that most UKIP haters will never experience this kind of situation either.

Now what do you think about this?
It's a shame an experience of one person should head your relatives to such an extreme view. Today I was reading that since the government has increased the minimum wage for immigrants to £35k (i.e. the minimum they have to earn to live in the country), this will result in over 1000 nurses losing their jobs and getting deported. Millions were spent recruiting them which will now be lost. And in a few years this could result in an additional 12,000 NHS staff getting sacked simply because they're not getting paid enough to stay in the country.

This seems wrong somehow and I wish we would have a more positive attitude to other cultures. Sure bad stuff happens in the world but if we turn against the whole world then we only isolate ourselves. I just wonder if UKIP supporters understand this and want to see what their response is.
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ChoccyPhilly
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(Original post by harry734)
This is an extreme case though... the damage UKIP would do to the country with all of their plans/policies would not be worth removing the handful of people that abuse the system. Sorry, but potty's staying.
oh yeah, definitely. UKIP are mad and irrational and if they have one good point, they ruin it with 5 other terrible points. but all i was trying to highlight is why anyone would support it, which is the question at hand, right?

(Original post by aaronlowe)
This seems wrong somehow and I wish we would have a more positive attitude to other cultures. Sure bad stuff happens in the world but if we turn against the whole world then we only isolate ourselves. I just wonder if UKIP supporters understand this and want to see what their response is.
I agree. I think UKIP are gorging off the anger and frustration seen in my family and using it to fuel other, silly agendas. They make a good point but then so many of their other points are so, so bad that voting them would be entirely pointless
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harry734
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(Original post by ChoccyPhilly)
oh yeah, definitely. UKIP are mad and irrational and if they have one good point, they ruin it with 5 other terrible points. but all i was trying to highlight is why anyone would support it, which is the question at hand, right?
It's just not important/significant enough to spend time focusing on, especially when its convenient to the rich for us to squabble over silly distractions while they avoid tax and no one does anything or the banks rob us blind and pay it out to their staff in bonuses, sorry to sound harsh because i understand your frustration, but we really need to do what we can to save this country by making significant change for the better of the ordinary working people rather than the elite
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ChoccyPhilly
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(Original post by harry734)
It's just not important/significant enough to spend time focusing on, especially when its convenient to the rich for us to squabble over silly distractions while they avoid tax and no one does anything or the banks rob us blind and pay it out to their staff in bonuses, sorry to sound harsh because i understand your frustration, but we really need to do what we can to save this country by making significant change for the better of the ordinary working people rather than the elite
erm, you don't need to talk to me about it. I wasn't expressing my view above.

I voted labour, after all.

And boy, do i miss ed miliband's goofy face
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harry734
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(Original post by ChoccyPhilly)
erm, you don't need to talk to me about it. I wasn't expressing my view above.

I voted labour, after all.

And boy, do i miss ed miliband's goofy face
yep, just voicing my opinion, you showed some support for ukip (not saying you vote for them), so i explained why i do not think we should even entertain them even if they have a slightly good point. And yeah me too haha
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ChoccyPhilly
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(Original post by harry734)
yep, just voicing my opinion, you showed some support for ukip (not saying you vote for them), so i explained why i do not think we should even entertain them even if they have a slightly good point. And yeah me too haha
I can have empathy without showing support and there isn't wrong with debating their good points as long as we crush them with logic when they are unreasonable but yeah, there are bigger things to deal with in all honesty.
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harry734
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(Original post by ChoccyPhilly)
I can have empathy without showing support and there isn't wrong with debating their good points as long as we crush them with logic when they are unreasonable but yeah, there are bigger things to deal with in all honesty.
glad we agree
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william walker
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Me because I want to leave the EU.
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Terry Tibbs
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English nationalists.
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Kocytean
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(Original post by aaronlowe)
It's a shame an experience of one person should head your relatives to such an extreme view. Today I was reading that since the government has increased the minimum wage for immigrants to £35k (i.e. the minimum they have to earn to live in the country), this will result in over 1000 nurses losing their jobs and getting deported. Millions were spent recruiting them which will now be lost. And in a few years this could result in an additional 12,000 NHS staff getting sacked simply because they're not getting paid enough to stay in the country.

This seems wrong somehow and I wish we would have a more positive attitude to other cultures. Sure bad stuff happens in the world but if we turn against the whole world then we only isolate ourselves. I just wonder if UKIP supporters understand this and want to see what their response is.
I support UKIP, I disagree with that. The Conservative government may have done that to try and appease the disillusioned voters who defected to UKIP, but they're wrong. This move is directly to remove immigrants depite the resultant damage to the country. That isn't how it should work. Noone cares about that. Immigration is a major UKIP policy but only where it's doing harm to the country and costing money. This isn't something UKIP would condone and I look forward to seeing their statement regarding this, as I'm sure one will be published.

Personally, I'm not really fussed about the immigration policies. Some of my favorite UKIP ideas are investing back into the military, reforms to tax, and changes to education, grammar schools in particular. The only place I disagree with them is not building another generation of nuclear power plants.
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ALevelBro
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(Original post by Need2Study4Exam)
Not really. Most countries have a bad side to them. The UK and the US included. I think that Russia acts as a balancing force against the US, so I don't mind them in that respect.
Russia is not a balancing force against anyone. It is a small regional power, a banana republic with nuclear weapons and an unstable dictator. Putin is a threat to world peace and thus must be removed.
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Need2Study4Exam
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(Original post by ALevelBro)
Russia is not a balancing force against anyone. It is a small regional power, a banana republic with nuclear weapons and an unstable dictator. Putin is a threat to world peace and thus must be removed.
The US has caused more instability in the world than Putin has.
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aaronlowe
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(Original post by dragonzrmetal)
I support UKIP, I disagree with that. The Conservative government may have done that to try and appease the disillusioned voters who defected to UKIP, but they're wrong. This move is directly to remove immigrants depite the resultant damage to the country. That isn't how it should work. Noone cares about that. Immigration is a major UKIP policy but only where it's doing harm to the country and costing money. This isn't something UKIP would condone and I look forward to seeing their statement regarding this, as I'm sure one will be published.

Personally, I'm not really fussed about the immigration policies. Some of my favorite UKIP ideas are investing back into the military, reforms to tax, and changes to education, grammar schools in particular. The only place I disagree with them is not building another generation of nuclear power plants.
Lots of points but I'm late for a meeting so will be very quick.
So, you're a moderate UKIP supporter? Is Nigel an extreme UKIP supporter? When he was questioned about Romanians he seemed pretty racist to me. He's covered up since making that mistake but it's possible he still holds the same views. Doesn't that worry you that he may end up like another hitler? All nice and socialist to begin with then an absolute nightmare later.

What are your views on BNP? Are they similar to UKIP?

I studied Environmental Energy once so know the pros and cons of nuclear vs other forms. Actually nuclear isn't quite as bad as it may seem. What are your concerns? I'm not saying it's perfect btw
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Kocytean
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(Original post by aaronlowe)
Lots of points but I'm late for a meeting so will be very quick.
So, you're a moderate UKIP supporter? Is Nigel an extreme UKIP supporter? When he was questioned about Romanians he seemed pretty racist to me. He's covered up since making that mistake but it's possible he still holds the same views. Doesn't that worry you that he may end up like another hitler? All nice and socialist to begin with then an absolute nightmare later.

What are your views on BNP? Are they similar to UKIP?

I studied Environmental Energy once so know the pros and cons of nuclear vs other forms. Actually nuclear isn't quite as bad as it may seem. What are your concerns? I'm not saying it's perfect btw
I said nothing of the sort. While I don't agree 100% with their energy policies I agree with the vast majority of their policies, which more than can be said for Conservative, and an absolute joke by the time we consider Labour and Green. Was that statement supposed to be a joke or something? Ironic perhaps? I'm rather confused by it.

I don't view those comments as racist. I'm absolutely sick of how everyone always pulls the racist card. You can't even mention the fact that different ethnicities exist without being labelled as racist. He was discussing facts and figures. If those facts and figures spoke about high crime rates among Romanians, then good on him for being brave enough to speak about it, despite the backlash he knew it would receive from the overly sensitive. Have you heard different comments than I have?

I'm not worried about the Hitler thing. I'm more worried about that happening under the current Conservative government in fact. I do see similarities between current society today and society pre Nazi Germany. "Bloody immigrants" have become the modern day Jew, and a scapegoat. This is a dangerous situation, and the Conservative government isn't helping it. As aaronlowe wrote, the decision made today will increase tensions and affect genuine skilled foreign workers in an area of skill shortage! UKIP doesn't intend on attacking immigrants in this way, UKIP only wants a fair scenario for everyone where we get the skilled immigrants and don't have to let in unskilled ones that would be a drain. Apart from that, it would never happen. Nigel could get removed by movement of no confidence. I doubt UKIP will ever get in any other way but a coalition. I was betting on a Conservative-UKIP coalition this year, but maybe next time. Apart from that, we don't even have a real democracy in this country. Lets entertain your idea that Farage turns into Hitler, none of his mad ideas would get past the House of Lords anyway.

BNP is rather dodgy. Some of their policies are ok, but they've been openly racist in the past, and their agenda is suspiciously ethnic nationalist rather than putting the country's needs first. They're on a completely different level to EDL though. EDL have no legitimacy whatsoever rather than being an excuse for hooligans to go out and shout.

I'm for nuclear power, it's brilliant. The only real danger of it is the plants being the target of a terror attack. We live in a small country and a few power plants being blown up would suddenly not give us all much space to live in. UKIP is against it for environmental reasons.

Is that everything? Long post :P
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