Do you agree with Nigel Farage in this article?

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Daisy21
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html#comments

Right wing friends sharing this on FB this morning, bit the bullet and gave it a read.

Do you agree?
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SotonianOne
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Yes.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Daisy21)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html#comments

Right wing friends sharing this on FB this morning, bit the bullet and gave it a read.

Do you agree?
I hate to say it but I do agree with it.

We've made exscuses, blamed ourselves, blamed our actions but for whatever reason we've failed to come clean and say that there is a problem with some nutters hijacking Islam to further a political aim.

Although it's politically incorrect to criticise multiculturalism fails to acknowledge deep seated cultural differences.

It's time we all, and that includes the Muslim community start dealing with this threat.
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Davij038
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Partly. My 2 criticisms are:

1: Libya: If we had not stopped Gadaffi we'd have had refugees fleeing from him instead.

2: IF the Italians gave Refugees EU pass ports and then only IF the refugees are able to all find jobs does freedom of movement become a potential problem.

I agree that the whole EU needs to follow what the Australians didin this example and that this is a grave security concern.
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william walker
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(Original post by Davij038)
Partly. My 2 criticisms are:

1: Libya: If we had not stopped Gadaffi we'd have had refugees fleeing from him instead.

2: IF the Italians gave Refugees EU pass ports and then only IF the refugees are able to all find jobs does freedom of movement become a potential problem.

I agree that the whole EU needs to follow what the Australians didin this example and that this is a grave security concern.
Europe isn't Australia they are all trying to sponge off one another. If Italian was a fully independent nation and couldn't force other nation to help it through the thread of giving all the migrants EU passports then it would act like Australia has. In fact it would go much further directly intervening in Libya. The sooner the EU breaks apart the sooner this problem goes away and other problems will arise.
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Davij038
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(Original post by william walker)
Europe isn't Australia they are all trying to sponge off one another. If Italian was a fully independent nation and couldn't force other nation to help it through the thread of giving all the migrants EU passports then it would act like Australia has. In fact it would go much further directly intervening in Libya. The sooner the EU breaks apart the sooner this problem goes away and other problems will arise.
This has nothing to do with the EU but the UN- Russia would block any more intervention in Libya and the UNCHR which everyone is subject to would have a field day.
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william walker
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I hate to say it but I do agree with it.

We've made exscuses, blamed ourselves, blamed our actions but for whatever reason we've failed to come clean and say that there is a problem with some nutters hijacking Islam to further a political aim.

Although it's politically incorrect to criticise multiculturalism fails to acknowledge deep seated cultural differences.

It's time we all, and that includes the Muslim community start dealing with this threat.
They aren't nutters they are smart and capable actors with a political end. However these attacks seem bad they really are very limited and don't really matter. ISIL and other groups have lost tens of thousands of people, mean while they can only murder about 40 people in Tunisia and France. Big whoop. Of course the media show photos of British people laying their on the beach dead doesn't help and makes my very angry and upset. However I calm down and realise that we can do nothing about it. So you either change your actions which is what the political aim of ISIL is or we continue as we did before. All the time trying to improve our means and methods to stop it happening again.

The reality is that Multiculturalism hasn't failed, it has done exactly what its proponents wanted it to do. However as always there are unforeseen problems and consequences of it. Such as thousands of people who feel their legacy is not British, but that of the place where their ancestors lived.
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william walker
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(Original post by Davij038)
This has nothing to do with the EU but the UN- Russia would block any more intervention in Libya and the UNCHR which everyone is subject to would have a field day.
They will do it using covert means, but they would be intervening. Not with air strikes but money and intelligence. Buy off the right people send them weapons and get them to kill the people traffickers. Or do it themselves with special forces. Nothing would be out in the open. We also can't forget about the Egyptians have already bombed Libya without the UN. Also where is this government that would speak for Libya in the UN, it doesn't have one.
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Davij038
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(Original post by william walker)
They will do it using covert means, but they would be intervening. Not with air strikes but money and intelligence. Buy off the right people send them weapons and get them to kill the people traffickers. Or do it themselves with special forces. Nothing would be out in the open. We also can't forget about the Egyptians have already bombed Libya without the UN. Also where is this government that would speak for Libya in the UN, it doesn't have one.
Well if they havent done that now I cant see why bein g in the EU would have stopped them- This is what Britain is arguing for at any rate.
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The two eds
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I agreed with everything he said.


(Original post by Davij038)
Partly. My 2 criticisms are:

1: Libya: If we had not stopped Gadaffi we'd have had refugees fleeing from him instead.

2: IF the Italians gave Refugees EU pass ports and then only IF the refugees are able to all find jobs does freedom of movement become a potential problem.

I agree that the whole EU needs to follow what the Australians didin this example and that this is a grave security concern.
I would like to know. How do people like you intend to work out if a migrant has affiliations or any connection whatsoever to ISIS or any other terror group? Or do you just agree we let everyone in?

I ask because if I were part of ISIS I would take advantage of the migrant situation and tag along to spread terror in the western nations.
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william walker
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(Original post by Davij038)
Well if they havent done that now I cant see why bein g in the EU would have stopped them- This is what Britain is arguing for at any rate.
Because they don't have to do it now. They are trying to suck in the whole EU so they don't have to pay for it.
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Davij038
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(Original post by The two eds)

I would like to know. How do people like you intend to work out if a migrant has affiliations or any connection whatsoever to ISIS or any other terror group? Or do you just agree we let everyone in?

I ask because if I were part of ISIS I would take advantage of the migrant situation and tag along to spread terror in the western nations.
Where did I say we should let everyone in? I think we should not let in any more refugees and continue with EU freedom of movement, which is a separate issue- for the reasons i stated previously: Germans, Spanish, Poles, Even Romanisans are just as likley to be ISIS supporters as our own citizens (maybe less actually, the UK has the second highest number of ISIS recruits.
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SotonianOne
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(Original post by Davij038)
Where did I say we should let everyone in? I think we should not let in any more refugees and continue with EU freedom of movement, which is a separate issue- for the reasons i stated previously: Germans, Spanish, Poles, Even Romanisans are just as likley to be ISIS supporters as our own citizens (maybe less actually, the UK has the second highest number of ISIS recruits.
That's blatantly not true.

ISIS membership is correlating with proportion of muslims in host nation. **** me sideways if there has ever been an ISIS member from Poland/Finland/Romania/Slovakia.

Which is why we should have national profiling and along with restricting migrant entrance, we should be screening people from France, Belgium, Germany and Sweden.
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Rakas21
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Partly.

Since Italy has not yet given them passports it's somewhat fearmongering however it's a potential issue. I dare say that if the likes of Italy and Greece did hand them out en masse then it might be enough to force me to vote Out in the referendum.
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United1892
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(Original post by Daisy21)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html#comments

Right wing friends sharing this on FB this morning, bit the bullet and gave it a read.

Do you agree?
No
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Davij038
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(Original post by SotonianOne)
That's blatantly not true.

ISIS membership is correlating with proportion of muslims in host nation. **** me sideways if there has ever been an ISIS member from Poland/Finland/Romania/Slovakia.

Which is why we should have national profiling and along with restricting migrant entrance, we should be screening people from France, Belgium, Germany and Sweden.
What have I said that's untrue? As you say- theres a number of countries where there's practically no threat. The UK (or france, cant remember) has the biggest muslim population- if there is a security risk it is probably homegrown. That said i'm pretty sure that EU nationals are still entitled to checks- doubly so if you're a bearded minority. Interpol also works closely with the EU and this collaboration usually gives the UK a chance to better screen individuals,

I should add that as far as i'm aware no UK terrorist has been an EU migrant.

Like Rakas said the article is presupposing- all we know is Italy have accepted refugees- Countries have been doing that way before the EU. IIRC wsnt mr farage calling on Cameron to accept Migrants from this area?
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Observatory
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(Original post by william walker)
Europe isn't Australia they are all trying to sponge off one another. If Italian was a fully independent nation and couldn't force other nation to help it through the thread of giving all the migrants EU passports then it would act like Australia has.
I agree. The Italians have acted entirely cynically here, calculating that it is cheaper for them to ship the immigrants into Northern Europe, which is where they want to go anyway, than to try to stop them entering Italy. It is only surprising that the resistance to this has come as a surprise.

I also find your other analysis remarkably clear and level-headed.

They aren't nutters they are smart and capable actors with a political end. However these attacks seem bad they really are very limited and don't really matter. ISIL and other groups have lost tens of thousands of people, mean while they can only murder about 40 people in Tunisia and France. Big whoop. Of course the media show photos of British people laying their on the beach dead doesn't help and makes my very angry and upset. However I calm down and realise that we can do nothing about it. So you either change your actions which is what the political aim of ISIL is or we continue as we did before. All the time trying to improve our means and methods to stop it happening again.

The reality is that Multiculturalism hasn't failed, it has done exactly what its proponents wanted it to do. However as always there are unforeseen problems and consequences of it. Such as thousands of people who feel their legacy is not British, but that of the place where their ancestors lived.
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SotonianOne
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(Original post by Davij038)
That said i'm pretty sure that EU nationals are still entitled to checks- doubly so if you're a bearded minority
Almost no one gets checked on entrance into the UK, bar some airports.

The last time my car's passports were checked in the Eurotunnel were before the 08 crash, and I leave yearly.
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Davij038
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(Original post by SotonianOne)
Almost no one gets checked on entrance into the UK, bar some airports.

The last time my car's passports were checked in the Eurotunnel were before the 08 crash, and I leave yearly.
Tbf I honestly dont know.

Maybe next time grow a beard, put on some dark sun tan spray, wear some robes and have a dodgy looking back pack in the passenger seat and see what happens!
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