Whats so great about Durham. watch talk to the uni Official Rep

Isn't it the only uni appart from ox and cam where you get to put little letters after your name?? That's pretty cool.

Kate, howcome you always appear "offline"?....'cause you can't be offline - you're on here posting

(Original post by Louise_1988)
Isn't it the only uni appart from ox and cam where you get to put little letters after your name?? That's pretty cool.

Oh yeah...about that - do you have to put the "Dunhelm" thing after your name, or is it optional?

(Original post by serendipity)
If you search this subject you'll see that this has been debated time and time again.

Leekey i know you have a hatred for Durham (based on the fact that you didn't meet nice people there?!) but some of us are actually quite looking forward to going to a uni that suits them down to the ground, so please stop putting such a downer on it. It isn't the pretender to the hallowed seat of learning that is Oxbridge that it's made out to be, but it is a damn sight better than a lot of other unis.

No, no you misunderstand what I am saying...

Durham is a first class university and there are very few seat of learning in this country and that can come anywhere close to their level. I personally wouldn't like to study there but I am absolutely certain that it is a wonderful place to study if you do like it (it is afterall very pretty). I was simply trying to agree with JS that it is not the prime Oxbridge alternative that it used to be. This is not because of any defficiency on the part of Durham but more the way that other universities have improve themselves to the same level and provided other alternatives to talented applicants.

(Original post by Louise_1988)
Isn't it the only uni appart from ox and cam where you get to put little letters after your name?? That's pretty cool.

That should be brought back for all uni's I think (bascially becuase I want a longer title)....

(Original post by Leekey)
That should be brought back for all uni's I think

I agree....if all unis did it, it wouldn't seem quite so pretentious, *grin*

(Original post by serendipity)
some of us are actually quite looking forward to going to a uni that suits them down to the ground, so please stop putting such a downer on it. It isn't the pretender to the hallowed seat of learning that is Oxbridge that it's made out to be, but it is a damn sight better than a lot of other unis.

Well said! (I'd give you rep if I hadn't maxed out for the day. I'll do it tomorrow.)

(Original post by serendipity)
I'm going to be picky here, but I really hate it when people make sweeping degrading statements. Durham is widely considered to be top in the country for geography, and is consistently third or fourth for English, ahead of all the other universities you mention. It also comes second for history, below Cambridge and above Oxford. For Physics it comes top; for Law third; for Theology fourth. I think, therefore, that your "trivial, but nevertheless quite effective" arguement is perhaps not quite as effective as you thought.

This is a pretty poor attempt actually, you've pointed out that in several areas according to a league table, or whatever else you’ve used, that Durham is rather good - pretty easy to do this for each of the universities I named, besides it’s not terribly reliable anyway. What does this in your opinion achieve, does it mean because you're able to do this that what I was saying about there being an effective argument regarding Durham being somewhere near the bottom of the universities I mentioned is rendered ineffective? Not at all. I wasn't talking about a handful of departments, look at the overall RAE performance, and then look at the entry grades overall throughout the institution - Durham doesn't do all THAT well relatively speaking, this is NOT conclusive proof, however in my humble opinion is a pretty effective argument - btw I did state that such differences were TRIVIAL before you accuse me of making 'degrading' statements. I thought I made it fairly clear that there’s little between these institutions, and prospects upon graduation, all else being equal, departmental variations aside, would be much the same – highly degrading that, I do apologise.

(Original post by serendipity)
I'm not quite sure whether you're referring just to research here. True, Durham isn't big on research. It focusses much more closely on its teaching. This is partly because as a very small univerity with just 10,000 students it can't support the research staff. If your comment on not being in the same league as Oxbridge is referring to teaching, see above.

In using the terms: "research standing" - what else could I have been commenting on? Sure, it's small, they don't have a lot of money - but if a university does not conduct research that is highly regarded, there's a heavy price to pay - Durham is beginning to realise this it would seem, it’s promoting itself more now as a research led university.

(Original post by serendipity)
There's a "class" of collegiate system? I think you're mistaken in attempting to compare Durham's collegiate system with that of Oxbridge. Durham's system doesn't attempt to emmulate Oxbridge's, it has a totally different purpose.

Durham is different, that is true, it’s different because it cannot afford to be like Oxbridge, it does not willingly set out to achieve a standard that’s inferior to Oxbridge. It's easy to form a hierarchy, some within are clearly inferior and suffer from a lack of highly distinguished research fellows, and lack the resources to conduct intense 1 - 1/2/3 tutorials, and also lack the high standard of students too, i.e. Oxbridge as compared with Durham. It’s harsh but true, methinks. God, isn’t it such great fun winding Durham students up – it ought to be given the equivalent status to that of a popular sport.

On a more serious mote, I think the reason as to why people associate Durham with Oxbridge rejection is not so much that a greater number of Oxbridge rejects attend the university - they're quite evenly spread around Warwick, UCL, Bristol, Notts and even LSE and Imperial. However, I believe the reason is, that at least to the general public, it's MORE difficult for a student at Durham to justify being there as opposed to Oxbridge, unless they've been rejected from the latter. With say for e.g. Imperial, there's the appeal of being in London, the appeal of a specialist institution, also more specifically being in South Kensington - all this is fairly distinct as compared with what Oxbridge offers. The appeal of Durham as a university is rather more similar to Oxbridge. I'm not saying this is totally justified, although it probably is to an extent; so please Durham students, do not bite my head off - this is just the general impression.

(Original post by J.S.)
God, isn’t it such great fun winding Durham students up – it ought to be given the equivalent status to that of a popular sport.

Okay...now go "wind up" the future students of some other university; the flogging-a-dead-horse approach to debating on this thread is becoming extremely tiresome.
We have now firmly established, that:

(a) Durham is a very good uni in its own right (regardless of whether you want to obssess over putting it in the context of Oxbridge or not) and that we "future Durhamites" all love Durham, and are really siked about going there this coming October (yay!)

(b) many like you will forever be convinced that the only reason we're going there is to pretend we are at Oxbridge. Obviously it's impossible that anyone should actually want to go there ("It's more difficult for a student at Durham to justify being there"?! - I mean, bloody hell...why should anyone have to "justify" wanting to go somewhere like Durham?)

It seems we will never be able to reconcile these two points of view. It can't be helped, and there doesn't seem much point in trying. But, no biggy really, as we are the ones going there, and I, for one, feel absolutely no need to justify this to anyone.

If I didn't know JS better, I'd think him a meanie.

But really, JS is cool and he's just winding us up. He used to do that to me before (and still does *cough*gigantic brain*cough*) but he's honestly a real sweetie.

(Original post by lilsunflower)
If I didn't know JS better, I'd think him a meanie.

But really, JS is cool and he's just winding us up. He used to do that to me before (and still does *cough*gigantic brain*cough*) but he's honestly a real sweetie.

I beg your pardon? I would quite like to keep my reputation as the big bad wolf of the UKL university forum intact, thank you very much! Incidentally, how's that gigantic brain of yours coping over the exam period?

Oh and well done to all those who've gotten into Durham, all the best!

(Original post by Leekey)
No, no you misunderstand what I am saying...

Durham is a first class university and there are very few seat of learning in this country and that can come anywhere close to their level. I personally wouldn't like to study there but I am absolutely certain that it is a wonderful place to study if you do like it (it is afterall very pretty). I was simply trying to agree with JS that it is not the prime Oxbridge alternative that it used to be. This is not because of any defficiency on the part of Durham but more the way that other universities have improve themselves to the same level and provided other alternatives to talented applicants.

Yeah I agree with that

(Original post by J.S.)
This is a pretty poor attempt actually, you've pointed out that in several areas according to a league table, or whatever else you’ve used, that Durham is rather good - pretty easy to do this for each of the universities I named,

I did it because in your first post you asserted that Durham wasn't as good as the universities you mentioned. That is all. (FYI: I used the Times league tables - widely regarded as the most reliable well known league table.)

(Original post by J.S.)
In using the terms: "research standing" - what else could I have been commenting on?

It was unclear from this part of your previous post whether you were still commenting on research or whether you'd moved on to teaching:

(Original post by J.S.)
As for Oxbridge, with all due respect, Durham isn't even in the same league-aside from maybe 1 or 2 exceptional departments.

(Original post by J.S.)
It's easy to form a hierarchy,

But only if you're short-sighted about it and fail to see that Durham is attempting to do something entirely different from Oxbridge with its collegiate system.

(Original post by J.S.)
and also lack the high standard of students too, i.e. Oxbridge as compared with Durham. It’s harsh but true, methinks.

You mean Oxbridge as compared with any other UK university? Since when did this thread become another comparison of Durham and Oxbridge? I for one am more than happy to be going to one of the top unis in the UK, and don't really care about how it compares with Oxbridge. This is yet another generalisation...Does it not occur to you that students perfectly capable of doing well at Oxbridge would choose Durham instead?

(Original post by J.S.)
God, isn’t it such great fun winding Durham students up

Only if you have nothing better to do with your time than belittle others' university aspirations.

(Original post by J.S.)
it's MORE difficult for a student at Durham to justify being there as opposed to Oxbridge, unless they've been rejected from the latter. With say for e.g. Imperial, there's the appeal of being in London, the appeal of a specialist institution, also more specifically being in South Kensington - all this is fairly distinct as compared with what Oxbridge offers.

For a start I don't see why I should have to justify my reasons for choosing Durham over other universities for English, but you asked for it:

1. Durham is third for English. Full stop.
2. It is away from London and the South East, where I am now. I want to spend my uni years somewhere different.
3. Durham's proximity to Newcastle, one of the most cosmopolitan cities in Britain.
4. Durham's overall friendliness
5. Its collegiate system. I didn't like the claustrophobia of Oxbridge's, and I liked how Durham's offers more pastoral care than being in halls.
6. Its excellent libraries (an obvious consideration for someone taking English Lit) and sports facilities

Need I go on?

And just in case you were wondering, I didn't apply to Oxbridge even though my school advised that I should. I'm fed up with some individuals on this forum insinuating that if you have the grades you're mad if you don't apply to Oxbridge.

Out of interest, what university are you going to, JS?

(Original post by J.S.)
I beg your pardon? I would quite like to keep my reputation as the big bad wolf of the UKL university forum intact, thank you very much! Incidentally, how's that gigantic brain of yours coping over the exam period?

Oh and well done to all those who've gotten into Durham, all the best!

You? Big bad wolf? Now who are you trying to kid?
You're too nice for that role. Just give up on the gigantic brain joke and I might actually think that you're the nicest person on these forums! Exams are killing me and I'm stressed to the max - that's why I hardly chat with you. But once they're over.. I'm holidaying in Bali, Singapore and wherever I want to go to *yayz!*.

xoxo <3

(Original post by J.S.)
it's MORE difficult for a student at Durham to justify being there as opposed to Oxbridge, unless they've been rejected from the latter. With say for e.g. Imperial, there's the appeal of being in London, the appeal of a specialist institution, also more specifically being in South Kensington - all this is fairly distinct as compared with what Oxbridge offers. The appeal of Durham as a university is rather more similar to Oxbridge. I'm not saying this is totally justified, although it probably is to an extent; so please Durham students, do not bite my head off - this is just the general impression.

if that is the general impression you get from us and other students, then i cant argue with your opinion, but i will say that I did not choose durham as a replacement for oxbridge. I applied to cambridge not solely (as you might think) because of its academic status.. i actually cant really think of anything worse than spending 8 solid weeks each term writing essay after essay and forever worrying about academic success.. but rather, it was one of only 3 places in the country that offers a form of college system. I personally love the idea, and like the feeling of belonging in a smaller community, being proud, having college rivalry and making my individual mark. I therefore went through the process at cambridge, and was rejected - probably when they realised that i wasnt really into intense academic success, but rather the whole college thing.. i had previously visited durham and loved it becuase rather than cambridge, my lectures would include students from aall over the uni, my academic timetable would be much free-er and there was no oppressive overtones of pressure and expectancy that i found at cambridge.

i hope in future people wont instantly presume that we're just looking for alternatives to oxbridge, or that we're convincing ourselves that we REALLY DO like durham when inside we wish it was cambridge.. i would honestly have chosen durham over cambridge if i had been given a place. ive been to a competitive school, and im sick of the constant pressure..and durham is perfect for me. the college system is not the same as oxbridge and for the last time: the outdated view that durham considers itslef the alternative, and is trying to emulate oxbridge is gladly dying out with the previous generation of academic obsessives.. it's durham - its individual and its not an oxbridge wannabe ..(if you want to find those, then i suggest you go to the oxbridge forums)

(Original post by serendipity)
I did it because in your first post you asserted that Durham wasn't as good as the universities you mentioned. That is all. (FYI: I used the Times league tables - widely regarded as the most reliable well known league table.)

This was a pretty poor argument, I've shown how...

(Original post by serendipity)
Does it not occur to you that students perfectly capable of doing well at Oxbridge would choose Durham instead?

There are many people at universities all across the U.K. who are not only capable of doing well at Oxford, but are capable of first class honours there. Actually, I come from a rock bottom comprehensive school with a GCSE pass rate in single digits, I know people who are now abusing coke who'd have otherwise been capable of Oxbridge.

(Original post by serendipity)
For a start I don't see why I should have to justify my reasons for choosing Durham over other universities for English, but you asked for it:

I said that it's MORE difficult for a Durham-ite to justify not being an Oxbridge student, as opposed to someone at Imperial for e.g. I didn’t say this made perfect sense, just that it’s a commonly held view and in cases justified. I never stated that a Durham student HAD to justify this to the world, nor that NO Durham student could ever justify being at their university as opposed to Oxbridge.

(Original post by serendipity)
Need I go on?

If you must, but you're boring the hell out of me, as it's totally irrelevant.

(Original post by serendipity)
Out of interest, what university are you going to, JS?

Is this some sneaky way in which you're going to argue that I'm biased in favour of Oxford? For the above question, you may refer to my profile, if you've not already done so.

I’ve stated that Durham is a good university, I tried to be objective. Now, lets forget these petty arguments. Btw, all the best during your time there.

(Original post by presebjenada)
if that is the general impression you get from us and other students, then i cant argue with your opinion

I agree with pretty much all of this, and I do not think it's impossible to justify Durham over Oxbridge, it's just that in a larger proportion of cases, relatively speaking, it is rather more difficult than for students of other universities - this is perhaps from where the Durham/Oxbridge reject association arises from.

I agree that the collegiate system is appealing, very much so, btw - especially regarding sports. I can also understand how people would want to avoid a great deal of constant competition regarding academic work. Although, personally, I am very competitive regarding academic work, and even if I were not - I wouldn't give a damn about the people around me. However, I can understand your point of view.

I never intended to make this seem like an attack on your university. I personally think Durham is an excellent place to study, and I've already commented on employment prospects. So all the best there

(Original post by J.S.)
I agree with pretty much all of this, and I do not think it's impossible to justify Durham over Oxbridge, it's just that in a larger proportion of cases, relatively speaking, it is rather more difficult than for students of other universities - this is perhaps from where the Durham/Oxbridge reject association arises from.

Out of (non-argumentative) curiosity, why?

(Original post by J.S.)
If you must, but you're boring the hell out of me, as it's totally irrelevant.

Please don't belittle me, you said it was difficult to justify going to Durham, I was trying to show that it isn't.

(Original post by J.S.)
Is this some sneaky way in which you're going to argue that I'm biased in favour of Oxford? .

No. But now you mention it...

(Original post by J.S.)
I tried to be objective. Now, lets forget these petty arguments.

You did? Sorry, I missed that

(Original post by J.S.)
I agree with pretty much all of this, and I do not think it's impossible to justify Durham over Oxbridge, it's just that in a larger proportion of cases, relatively speaking, it is rather more difficult than for students of other universities - this is perhaps from where the Durham/Oxbridge reject association arises from.

What I find hard to understand, is exactly why we should find it "harder to justify" wanting to go to Durham, than any other university. I, for example, am one of these notorious Cambridge rejects (and Cardiff - let's not forget Cardiff! )...it isn't as though Durham was the only place most "Oxbridge rejects" had offers from. So why exactly should I find it harder to "justify" going to Durham, than if I had chosen to go to say York or Edinburgh, if I happened to feel that I personally was better suited to Durham, and was more likely to enjoy my three years there? And anyway, should anyone have to "justify" not having been accepted to any given uni? And if so, should I also sit around next year fretting over Cardiff and trying to justify why I'm at Durham and not there? Because that would be no less ridiculous, considering I was no more bent on getting into Cambridge than I was Cardiff, or Durham or Exeter or any other uni I applied to.