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an Siarach
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#61
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#61
(Original post by kingslaw)
Test the stuff on themselves? Who are we to say that animals are morally worth less than scientists or humans in general? I have never ever heard a good arguement that justifies animal testing, or even the consumption of animals, that doesnt rely on a character of self-preservation.
Its not really a question of morality but of necessity.
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material breach
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#62
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#62
(Original post by kingslaw)
Test the stuff on themselves? Who are we to say that animals are morally worth less than scientists or humans in general? I have never ever heard a good arguement that justifies animal testing, or even the consumption of animals, that doesnt rely on a character of self-preservation.
Its based on choice, do you want to use the products you have in your life like the preservatives and sweetners they put in drink or do you want to go out without the drink. Do you want to be able to recover from dieases due to new vacines ect. Most people do and that is why we have it.
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TheMainDon
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#63
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#63
(Original post by an Siarach)
Its not really a question of morality but of necessity.
Why am i so wrong then out of necessity to halt all immegration, to remove those from society who are bringing this country down. why have the rapist child abusers here? they have acted in THE most imoral way imaginable and it is necessary for us to remove them.

If we are all supposed to be equal? why stop at humans? your Charles Bronson Ian Bradey etc have more of a right to live then an animal? not only that but animals are tortuered prisoners arnt? why not arnt we all supposed to be all equal? stop being so hippocritical.

Animal testing achieves nothing the biological difference between humans and animals ahve lead to hundreds of deaths due to unkown events due to the differences in composition.
We need a solution, we should bring back Capital punishment for the most serious of crimes and those found guilty given then option to be tested upon, that way we shall have a real test subject.

if you think gagging puppies, tying its legs to gether then throwing its off a motorway bridge is acceptable then you've got some issues.
just 1 example of an ill disciplined soicrty

ALF get my support
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kriztinae
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#64
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#64
(Original post by TheMainDon)
Why am i so wrong then out of necessity to halt all immegration, to remove those from society who are bringing this country down. why have the rapist child abusers here? they have acted in THE most imoral way imaginable and it is necessary for us to remove them.

If we are all supposed to be equal? why stop at humans? your Charles Bronson Ian Bradey etc have more of a right to live then an animal? not only that but animals are tortuered prisoners arnt? why not arnt we all supposed to be all equal? stop being so hippocritical.

Animal testing achieves nothing the biological difference between humans and animals ahve lead to hundreds of deaths due to unkown events due to the differences in composition.
We need a solution, we should bring back Capital punishment for the most serious of crimes and those found guilty given then option to be tested upon, that way we shall have a real test subject.

if you think gagging puppies, tying its legs to gether then throwing its off a motorway bridge is acceptable then you've got some issues.
just 1 example of an ill disciplined soicrty

ALF get my support
sorry dude ur views?
i dont agree with ur views
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TheMainDon
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#65
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#65
What is right has not always been popular.
What is popular has not always been right.
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an Siarach
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#66
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#66
(Original post by TheMainDon)
Why am i so wrong then out of necessity to halt all immegration, to remove those from society who are bringing this country down. why have the rapist child abusers here? they have acted in THE most imoral way imaginable and it is necessary for us to remove them.

If we are all supposed to be equal? why stop at humans? your Charles Bronson Ian Bradey etc have more of a right to live then an animal? not only that but animals are tortuered prisoners arnt? why not arnt we all supposed to be all equal? stop being so hippocritical.

Animal testing achieves nothing the biological difference between humans and animals ahve lead to hundreds of deaths due to unkown events due to the differences in composition.
We need a solution, we should bring back Capital punishment for the most serious of crimes and those found guilty given then option to be tested upon, that way we shall have a real test subject.

if you think gagging puppies, tying its legs to gether then throwing its off a motorway bridge is acceptable then you've got some issues.
just 1 example of an ill disciplined soicrty

ALF get my support
Because your 'policies' wouldnt have a positive effect in the short or long term. Of course that well tested sceintific technique of throwing puppies off a bridge is a real argument winner for you.
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Elles
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#67
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#67
(Original post by TheMainDon)
Animal testing achieves nothing the biological difference between humans and animals ahve lead to hundreds of deaths due to unkown events due to the differences in composition.
We need a solution, we should bring back Capital punishment for the most serious of crimes and those found guilty given then option to be tested upon, that way we shall have a real test subject.

if you think gagging puppies, tying its legs to gether then throwing its off a motorway bridge is acceptable then you've got some issues.
just 1 example of an ill disciplined soicrty

ALF get my support
considering we apparently have something like 99% of our genome in common with a banana then the biological similarities between animals and humans are probably greater than the differences. especially when you consider the fact that different species are used to examine different systems due to their similarities (guinea pigs for respiratory..etc). & i think a whole living organism certainly behaves in a more similar manner to a complete human than a cell culture would.. :rolleyes:

yes, there are cases where species respond differently..but there are always going to be exceptions & that would most likely be identified in later Phase trials that do involve human volunteers.
replacing all of this with humans is flawed..too much individual variation..too long a lifespan etc. etc.

& is the puppy argument related to animal testing? i fail to see the relevance.. although you do bring up the issue of cruelty to animals. which is far more widespread in this country than animal testing is & serves no purpose whatsover..so perhaps animal rights campaigners should turn their attention to combatting these illegal activities first?
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TheMainDon
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#68
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#68
A chap once said:
"Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Jefferson

i was refering to youth crime btw on the murder of the puppy
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Elles
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#69
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#69
(Original post by TheMainDon)
A chap once said:
"Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Jefferson

i was refering to youth crime btw on the murder of the puppy
probably..but savages with impressive medical advances!
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an Siarach
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#70
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#70
(Original post by TheMainDon)
A chap once said:
"Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
Thomas Jefferson

i was refering to youth crime btw on the murder of the puppy
What pertinence does youth crime bear as part of your wonderful little dance of irrelevances?
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TheMainDon
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#71
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#71
What medical advances? lol we cant cure the common cold (please no virus mutation crap)
a recent survey among doctors found * 51% of doctors agreed that patients would suffer fewer side effects if new drugs were tested more extensively on human cell and tissue cultures.
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Elles
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#72
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#72
(Original post by TheMainDon)
What medical advances? lol we cant cure the common cold (please no virus mutation crap)
i think it might not be the most productive use of my time to outline 'recent medical advances' to you..
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leah_mushroom
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#73
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#73
(Original post by TheMainDon)
3) you believe the likes of Hindley, Shipmann Huntley Bradey, Bronson should be living in society, Those who rape young children? those who rape? your hear stories of people being beaten and stabbed to death dozens of times? you want them living next door?
Capital punishment is quite obviously not a solution at all. You just have to loko at the figures in the USA. States with capital punishment have higher crime rates thasn those without. It doesn't work. Also, rehabilitation is much better. If people are going to be a danger to society then let the government rehabilitate them, or let them live in care if need be. Killing someone because they killed someone else make you just as bad as the criminal.

Immigrants or asylum seekers don't do it to piss you off - for many life in teir own country is so bad that you can;t blame them for wanting to get out. In more than one case it's because us western governments are making their country so awful and poor, so it's not that bad to let them live in this country - they're people like the rest of us. What's so different about a person from Afganistan wating to live here, and a person from Germany wanting to live here?
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TheMainDon
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#74
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#74
because a person from Germany is highly more likley to be a more productive memeber and not a drain on society that the Afgan.
Those Dr's teachers ofcurse bring them in, pay them 4 all i care but tough times ask 4 tough decisions.

They must speak english that is paramount
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Bigcnee
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#75
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#75
(Original post by TheMainDon)
They must speak english that is paramount
why?
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leah_mushroom
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#76
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#76
The maindon -you are a complete racist. Why do you object to a multi-cultural society? Why do you assue a German is more productive than an Afgan? You say doctors and teachers are allowed....does that mean if you're not a doctor/teacher/such like you should be thrown out of the country?

Do you agree with the statistics of corporal punishment that it doesn't work, or have you just ignored it?

If in all honesty you're not saying that middle-eastern people are less useful/productive than people in England, are you suggesting that no-one if not productive should be allowed to migrate?

You can't make such drastic generalisations about a group of people without basis for each and every one of them. What is wrong with not speaking English? The German immigrant would not speak English neccesarily. I am sure that you would agree it would be stupid for China for example to make it illegal for you to move there because you didn't speak Chinese.

Why is it a neccesity for immigration to be halted? It is because of the Third-world debt and wars that we have caused that they might want to move i the first place.
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Jamie Frost
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#77
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#77
They must speak english that is paramount
I think therefore TheMainOne that by this logic you are not entitled to be in this country, because you can barely seem to go a few words without making some sort of mistake.
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TheMainDon
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#78
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#78
sorry boss, take it u all send txts will full spellings?
and yes a german would be more productive, more acustomed to western society.
i just honestly cannot wait and when it does and all non Brits are removed, that shall be a great day. your telling me you walk down the streets and feel comfortable if you see rag heads walking round all the hidjab terrorists, yeh thats a great feature to have.
omg statistics and be taken to proven anything. Capital punishment isnt supposed to be a deterrant, its supposed to be justice. if, heaven forbid, you had a child they were raped by a child abuser you can honestly tell be your happy for them to carry on living?
to be in prison for an average of 4years (theres another stat 4 u) then come out and live next door to your now 2nd child who walks to infant school which is only 200yards away?
if so your more trusting than i am
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Dickie
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#79
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#79
Disagree with 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 16, 17
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John Paul Jones
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#80
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#80
(Original post by TheMainDon)
sorry boss, take it u all send txts will full spellings?
and yes a german would be more productive, more acustomed to western society.
i just honestly cannot wait and when it does and all non Brits are removed, that shall be a great day. your telling me you walk down the streets and feel comfortable if you see rag heads walking round all the hidjab terrorists, yeh thats a great feature to have.
omg statistics and be taken to proven anything. Capital punishment isnt supposed to be a deterrant, its supposed to be justice. if, heaven forbid, you had a child they were raped by a child abuser you can honestly tell be your happy for them to carry on living?
to be in prison for an average of 4years (theres another stat 4 u) then come out and live next door to your now 2nd child who walks to infant school which is only 200yards away?
if so your more trusting than i am

Capital punishment would be acceptable if you were the only recipient of it
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