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    on the radio this morning there was an 'educational welfare officer' whining about nasty horrid
    parents who ruin there childrens' education by cruelly taking them on holiday during term time when
    it's half the price, demanding increased powers from the government (as if the threat of a 1000 lbs
    fine isn't power enough) in order to 'crack down' on this practise.

    let's face it, given the standard of education in some schools, is a week off exploring the
    architecture of, say, malta or barcelona, *really* going to have a serious effect on the education
    of the child compared with, say, sitting in a classroom copying work out of a book which has been
    set by a supply teacher whose specialism is a different subject entirely ? what's the educational
    difference between copying work out of a book at the time the work was set, & copying work out of a
    book a week later at home ?

    & if teachers & educational welfare officers are truly convinced that the only place for education
    is in the classroom, will they also be ending the common school practise of taking the rich children
    away for a week on a 'school trip' during term time ?

    perhaps the educational welfare officers should return to concentrating on what they're actually
    there for - stopping truants from going on shoplifting sprees - rather than persecuting the minority
    of parents who want to give their children an educational experience at a time which they can both
    afford & is more civilised.

    --

    On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:26:30 +0000, simon gray <{$spamblock$}@star-one.org.uk> wrote:

    [q1]>on the radio this morning there was an 'educational welfare officer' whining about nasty horrid[/q1]
    [q1]>parents who ruin there childrens' education by cruelly taking them on holiday during term time when[/q1]
    [q1]>it's half the price, demanding increased powers from the government (as if the threat of a 1000 lbs[/q1]
    [q1]>fine isn't power enough) in order to 'crack down' on this practise.[/q1]

    They are lying whinging *******s. My ex's son doesn't go to school on average 2 mornings per week
    because his lazy arse mother is too lazy to take him. Hubby has been to the school, and initially
    the head mistress was very helpful and sympathetic (hubby has had to get Contact and Parental
    Responsibilty Orders just to see the child and try and have some influence in his upbringing).
    However, same headmistress said that in spite of his having around 40-60 absences per year, this was
    not excessive for the area (which when youy look at the figures, it in fact is ecessive for the
    area, but that's beside the point if they are arguing that merely one week missed will damage a
    child's education). What she failed to point out (but the Education Department at HMG did) was that
    it is up to the headmistress to decide what is an 'authorised' absence and what isn't! Hubby was not
    allowed to see the notes which witchface had sent to account for the absences..but was told that it
    was mostly due to (recurrent) illness. On contacting the child's doctor, he was told that said child
    had been nowhere near the surgery for nearly two years. Hubby rang school and told them and one
    could immediately feel their interest waning; headmistress promised that she would arrange for a
    'truant' officer to be sent around to the house if he didn't turn up for school, and promised to put
    it in writing to hubby and witchface. However, nothing in writing ever turned up, and on phoning the
    school, the head is always out these days. Hubby got so fed up that he phoned the educational
    welfare office and told them the problem (again). They said they would look into it but have never
    got back to him...they just seemed totally fed up with hubby, who had cause to get in touch with
    them previously to investigate claims that the black bruises all over the child's legs were being
    caused by kickings by his schoolmates.

    I suggest that if Educational Welfare Officers are so concerned that a child is suffering to miss a
    mere week of school (for a reasonable purpose IMO), that they pretend to care a little more about
    the welfare of the child when they are not being taken on holiday.

    In article <[email protected] uk>, simon gray <[email protected]> wrote:
    [q1]> on the radio this morning there was an 'educational welfare officer' whining about nasty horrid[/q1]
    [q1]> parents who ruin there childrens' education by cruelly taking them on holiday during term time[/q1]
    [q1]> when it's half the price, demanding increased powers from the government (as if the threat of a[/q1]
    [q1]> 1000 lbs fine isn't power enough) in order to 'crack down' on this practise.[/q1]

    It's jealousy from teachers that they have to holiday in school holidays (I know whereof I speak, as
    both of my parents are teachers), coupled with ludicrous targets that schools are given for
    attendence.

    My wife was taken out of school for holidays because when she was young her mother, a teacher, was
    only doing supply work and her father worked for BT. Given my mother in law's zeal for education, if
    she thought it OK, it's OK. I've only once taken my daughter out, for a half day to ease a weekend
    trip to Amsterdam.

    [q1]> let's face it, given the standard of education in some schools, is a week off exploring the[/q1]
    [q1]> architecture of, say, malta or barcelona, *really* going to have a serious effect on the education[/q1]
    [q1]> of the child[/q1]

    Although the set of people having holidays like that is vanishingly small, and the same argument is
    harder to apply to two weeks on the Costas. I certainly learnt more from family holidays than some
    of my education, but those holidays were weeks of amblind around Europe in a van going to mountains,
    cities and museums, not trips to the Costas (qv).

    [q1]> & if teachers & educational welfare officers are truly convinced that the only place for education[/q1]
    [q1]> is in the classroom, will they also be ending the common school practise of taking the rich[/q1]
    [q1]> children away for a week on a 'school trip' during term time ?[/q1]

    I think you'll find that's pretty much gone, Simon.

    [q1]> perhaps the educational welfare officers should return to concentrating on what they're actually[/q1]
    [q1]> there for - stopping truants from going on shoplifting sprees - rather than persecuting the[/q1]
    [q1]> minority of parents who want to give their children an educational experience at a time which they[/q1]
    [q1]> can both afford & is more civilised.[/q1]

    I'm not disagreeing, but the usual destinations are Disneyland and Spanish Beaches (I'm flying in //
    on a DC-10 tonight).

    ian

    In article <[email protected] uk>, simon gray <{$spamblock$}@star-one.org.uk> writes:
    [q1]> on the radio this morning there was an 'educational welfare officer' whining about nasty horrid[/q1]
    [q1]> parents who ruin there childrens' education by cruelly taking them on holiday during term time[/q1]
    [q1]> when it's half the price, demanding increased powers from the government (as if the threat of a[/q1]
    [q1]> 1000 lbs fine isn't power enough) in order to 'crack down' on this practise.[/q1]

    A schoolfriend of mine went away for three weeks every October, all the way through to A-levels,
    because that was when his dad could get the time off work. Never seemed to do him any harm.

    [q1]> & if teachers & educational welfare officers are truly convinced that the only place for education[/q1]
    [q1]> is in the classroom, will they also be ending the common school practise of taking the rich[/q1]
    [q1]> children away for a week on a 'school trip' during term time ?[/q1]

    Then there's this notion that the school holidays should be rearranged so that the `Easter' holiday
    is fixed and the summer holiday is shorter, thus making the peak-holiday-cost slot even shorter and
    hence even more expensive.

    [q1]> perhaps the educational welfare officers should return to concentrating on what they're actually[/q1]
    [q1]> there for - stopping truants from going on shoplifting sprees - rather than persecuting the[/q1]
    [q1]> minority of parents who want to give their children an educational experience at a time which they[/q1]
    [q1]> can both afford & is more civilised.[/q1]

    The notion that there are such people out there responsible for child welfare that can't actually
    _read_ competently (cf. Climbie enquiry---do you still have to have CQSW to be a social worker?)
    leaves me unequipped to consider how much more stupid this stuff can get.

    [q1]> winter olympics - 15 different kinds of competitive sliding[/q1]

    38 kinds, ITYM.
    --
    SAm. We can sanitise your mind in half the time it takes to sign your name

    simon gray typed:

    [q1]>is a week off exploring the architecture of, say, malta or barcelona, *really* going to have a[/q1]
    [q1]>serious effect on the education of the child[/q1]

    What about a week being left to roam about the beach in Benidorm while the parents get pissed an
    sunburned?

    If the government doesn't want us to take our children out during term time, then may be they should
    crack down on travel companies hiking the prices up over the holidays. lord knows it tough enough
    making ends meet as it is.

    simon gray <{$spamblock$}@star-one.org.uk> writes:

    [q1]> on the radio this morning there was an 'educational welfare officer' whining about nasty horrid[/q1]
    [q1]> parents who ruin there childrens' education by cruelly taking them on holiday during term time....[/q1]

    The thought that struck me was - why do we still have "terms" anyway. Why not have, say, 44 weeks in
    school with holidays to be taken flexibly.

    Parents taking holidays during term time are not the main problem with education. I would be
    surprised if anyone said that it was. Incidentally who taught you that 1000 lbs was the abbreviation
    for pounds when referring to money. Was it a teacher

    Perhaps the problem is one of attitude. Spend all your time disrespecting teachers and education and
    then wonder why your children truant or misbehave.

    On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:26:30 +0000, simon gray <{$spamblock$}@star-one.org.uk> wrote:

    [q1]>on the radio this morning there was an 'educational welfare officer' whining about nasty horrid[/q1]
    [q1]>parents who ruin there childrens' education by cruelly taking them on holiday during term time when[/q1]
    [q1]>it's half the price, demanding increased powers from the government (as if the threat of a 1000 lbs[/q1]
    [q1]>fine isn't power enough) in order to 'crack down' on this practise.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>let's face it, given the standard of education in some schools, is a week off exploring the[/q1]
    [q1]>architecture of, say, malta or barcelona, *really* going to have a serious effect on the education[/q1]
    [q1]>of the child compared with, say, sitting in a classroom copying work out of a book which has been[/q1]
    [q1]>set by a supply teacher whose specialism is a different subject entirely ? what's the educational[/q1]
    [q1]>difference between copying work out of a book at the time the work was set, & copying work out of a[/q1]
    [q1]>book a week later at home ?[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>& if teachers & educational welfare officers are truly convinced that the only place for education[/q1]
    [q1]>is in the classroom, will they also be ending the common school practise of taking the rich[/q1]
    [q1]>children away for a week on a 'school trip' during term time ?[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>perhaps the educational welfare officers should return to concentrating on what they're actually[/q1]
    [q1]>there for - stopping truants from going on shoplifting sprees - rather than persecuting the[/q1]
    [q1]>minority of parents who want to give their children an educational experience at a time which they[/q1]
    [q1]>can both afford & is more civilised.[/q1]

    ----------------------------------------
    http://www.geocities.com/derekmcmillan1951 You can contact me by email or ICQ 87147116

    Down on uk.misc street, the vibe from Sam Nelson is:

    [q2]> > winter olympics - 15 different kinds of competitive sliding[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> 38 kinds, ITYM.[/q1]

    i could only find 15 discreet sports on the olympic websites.

    --
    winter olympics - 15 different kinds of competitive sliding http://www.birmingham-alive.com/
    http://www.mp3.com/simongray http://www.internetmarina.co.uk/

    Down on uk.misc street, the vibe from Ian G Batten is:

    [q1]> My wife was taken out of school for holidays because when she was young her mother, a teacher, was[/q1]
    [q1]> only doing supply work and her father worked for BT. Given my mother in law's zeal for education,[/q1]
    [q1]> if she thought it OK, it's OK. I've only once taken my daughter out, for a half day to ease a[/q1]
    [q1]> weekend trip to Amsterdam.[/q1]

    i was never taken out of school for holidays, but i did have something like one week per term for
    the big concentrated block of rehearsals for the youth orchestra. & in my earlier years, i had
    getting on for half the year off just due to illness, because my bronchitis / asthma was so bad as a
    child. this didn't have any adverse effect on my education, as every teacher's in the school's
    (apart from geography & pe) desire for me to do *their* subject at a-level (at a completely
    different school, so they had no vested interest) indicates - i predict i probably learned more at
    home simply by virtue of being able to watch all of the schools' programmes, though i'll concede
    that they don't appear to be on any more.

    [q2]> > & if teachers & educational welfare officers are truly convinced that the only place for[/q2]
    [q2]> > education is in the classroom, will they also be ending the common school practise of taking the[/q2]
    [q2]> > rich children away for a week on a 'school trip' during term time ?[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> I think you'll find that's pretty much gone, Simon.[/q1]

    ah, right - they had them left right & centre when i was at school ! one school (the sixth form
    college) even owned a pad in the lake district to take people to.

    --
    winter olympics - 15 different kinds of competitive sliding http://www.birmingham-alive.com/
    http://www.mp3.com/simongray http://www.internetmarina.co.uk/

    In message <[email protected] uk>, simon gray <{$spamblock$}@star-one.org.uk> writes:
    [q1]>& in my earlier years, i had getting on for half the year off just due to illness, because my[/q1]
    [q1]>bronchitis / asthma was so bad as a child. this didn't have any adverse effect on my education[/q1]

    I was similarly off for a large period of time following an accident at the age of eight.

    --
    James Coupe but I lust after the raw pow0r of c. PGP 0x5D623D5D together with the humping great
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 elephant arse of gnome. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D - Vashti

    Maria typed:

    [q1]>They are lying whinging *******s.[/q1]

    Be fair.

    Most kids are whinging little *******s anyway, destined to lead lives of misery and uselessness. Let
    them have a bit of fun before the true terror of their sad lives dawns on them.

    In article <[email protected]>, Paul Flinders <[email protected]> wrote:
    [q1]> simon gray <{$spamblock$}@star-one.org.uk> writes:[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]> > on the radio this morning there was an 'educational welfare officer' whining about nasty horrid[/q2]
    [q2]> > parents who ruin there childrens' education by cruelly taking them on holiday during term[/q2]
    [q2]> > time....[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> The thought that struck me was - why do we still have "terms" anyway. Why not have, say, 44 weeks[/q1]
    [q1]> in school with holidays to be taken flexibly.[/q1]

    That wouldn't make timetabling hard in schools, would it? When do you suggest that the staff would
    take holidays, especially in the primary sector?

    ian

    In article <[email protected]>, Paul Flinders <[email protected]> writes:
    [q1]> simon gray <{$spamblock$}@star-one.org.uk> writes:[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q2]> > on the radio this morning there was an 'educational welfare officer' whining about nasty horrid[/q2]
    [q2]> > parents who ruin there childrens' education by cruelly taking them on holiday during term[/q2]
    [q2]> > time....[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> The thought that struck me was - why do we still have "terms" anyway. Why not have, say, 44 weeks[/q1]
    [q1]> in school with holidays to be taken flexibly.[/q1]

    Says one who has yet to attempt to plan his first lesson, let alone several weeks of them. Not that
    I'm against reasonable holidays taken at reasonable times during school terms, you understand, but a
    complete free-for-all like that would be unworkable.
    --
    SAm. We can sanitise your mind in half the time it takes to sign your name

    Ian G Batten <[email protected]> writes:
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> It's jealousy from teachers that they have to holiday in school holidays[/q1]

    So? So do reponsible parents of school-age children.

    --
    Shall I mourn your decline with some Thunderbird wine?

    In article <[email protected] k>, simon gray <{$spamblock$}@star-one.org.uk> writes:
    [q1]> Down on uk.misc street, the vibe from Sam Nelson is:[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q3]> > > winter olympics - 15 different kinds of competitive sliding[/q3]
    [q2]> >[/q2]
    [q2]> > 38 kinds, ITYM.[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> i could only find 15 discreet sports on the olympic websites.[/q1]

    Possibly. There's probably 30-odd events, though. Depends how you count it.
    --
    SAm. We can sanitise your mind in half the time it takes to sign your name

    In article <[email protected] k>, simon gray <[email protected]> wrote:
    [q1]> Down on uk.misc street, the vibe from Sam Nelson is:[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q3]> > > winter olympics - 15 different kinds of competitive sliding[/q3]
    [q2]> >[/q2]
    [q2]> > 38 kinds, ITYM.[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]> i could only find 15 discreet sports on the olympic websites.[/q1]

    There are some noisy ones too, however.

    [[ Look up discreet in a dictionary. Then look up discrete, which is what you meant ]]

    ian

    simon gray typed:

    [q3]>>> & if teachers & educational welfare officers are truly convinced that the only place for[/q3]
    [q3]>>> education is in the classroom, will they also be ending the common school practise of taking the[/q3]
    [q3]>>> rich children away for a week on a 'school trip' during term time ?[/q3]
    [q2]>>[/q2]
    [q2]>> I think you'll find that's pretty much gone, Simon.[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>ah, right - they had them left right & centre when i was at school ! one school (the sixth form[/q1]
    [q1]>college) even owned a pad in the lake district to take people to.[/q1]

    I send my kid to a 30 grand a year private school and he gets two weeks free at the school's
    chalet in Spain. I think that there are other kind's of education except for just reading and
    spelling, innit?

    On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:26:30 +0000, simon gray <{$spamblock$}@star-one.org.uk>

    typed:

    [q1]>perhaps the educational welfare officers should return to concentrating on what they're actually[/q1]
    [q1]>there for - stopping truants from going on shoplifting sprees - rather than persecuting the[/q1]
    [q1]>minority of parents who want to give their children an educational experience at a time which they[/q1]
    [q1]>can both afford & is more civilised.[/q1]

    nosy bluddy *******s.... tell 'em to get stuffed.... how on earth are you going to educate them
    properly if you don't take them out of school from time to time.....

    regards....

    web site at www.abelard.org - docs on power, ethics, inflation ..also education, logic and
    more....~1/3 million doc requests yearly --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- all that is
    necessary for I walk quietly and carry the triumph of evil is that I a big stick. good people do
    nothing I trust actions not words only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Gary wrote in uk.misc:
    [q1]> If the government doesn't want us to take our children out during term time, then may be they[/q1]
    [q1]> should crack down on travel companies hiking the prices up over the holidays. lord knows it tough[/q1]
    [q1]> enough making ends meet as it is.[/q1]

    Tough.

    It's called "market forces". If you don't like paying top (dollar|pound|euro|monopolymoney ) to fly
    out with millions of other brat-encumbered families to try to squash onto the same 1/2 mile of
    beach, then why not go somewhere closer to home?

    Cornwall is an extremely nice summer holiday destination, although I concede that the sea is
    *bloody* cold there.

    Meanwhile, I shall continue to enjoy brat-free holidays during term time. At least until I
    get a brat...

    --
    "I may have invented Ctrl-Alt-Del, but Microsoft made it popular."
    - David Bradley, one of the designers of the original IBM PC
 
 
 
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