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    On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:11:14 +0000 (UTC), "Roger" <[email protected]>

    typed:

    [q1]>x-archive-no: yes "abelard" <[email protected]> wrote in message[/q1]
    [q1]>news:[email protected]...[/q1]
    [q2]>>[/q2]
    [q2]>> i agree with almost all of what you say.... and obviously it applies widely..... however...it is[/q2]
    [q2]>> not a universal where the home standards are higher than those tolerated at school....[/q2]
    [q2]>>[/q2]
    [q1]>Obviously the children bring values and expectations from home and it is possible to make some[/q1]
    [q1]>generalisations about home background, expected performance and behaviour, but you would be a fool[/q1]
    [q1]>to judge the individual child on the basis of the generalisations.[/q1]

    i sure wouldn't want to be one of those...

    [q1]>But it is obvious that discipline is a key requirement if learning is to happen. I get round a lot[/q1]
    [q1]>of schools. Thinking of two primary schools which serve the same estate and which were built to the[/q1]
    [q1]>same plan. One has a tight uniform/dress code, has a degree of regimentation in terms of lining up[/q1]
    [q1]>and ways to behave in defined circumstances. The other has no dress code, the children drift into[/q1]
    [q1]>the classroom at the start of lessons and the day to day discipline is far less defined and very[/q1]
    [q1]>much left to the teachers. I know which of the two schools is performing best. I know which one is[/q1]
    [q1]>the easiest for a temporary teacher to fit into. I know which has the fewest discipline problems[/q1]
    [q1]>and which seems to be the happiest.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>I'm not drawing any conclusions from this except to say that I have to work harder to manage the[/q1]
    [q1]>class in the unregimented schools I go to. My feeling is that it is because the expectations are[/q1]
    [q1]>'negotiable' in the "what can we get away with" sense.[/q1]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>I think, also, that parents are better 'managed' in the more disciplined schools.[/q1]

    a fascinating post....i shall see what i can manage.....

    first...i expect you realise that i don't have a great deal
    of affection for schools and the way they are run.....

    second...i advise on schools according to the child.... rather like setting the washing machine
    according to the material....

    now....let's have a look at the background.... vast numbers of parents who are at best marginally
    competent.... and then....the desired outcome....

    i don't want to produce sheep....and i don't want to produce ravening (if that's what they are)
    wolves..... i wish to produce people who can think.....

    however....the factories mostly want sheep.... the pols mostly want sheep......only a sliver want
    thinking beings..... the prisons need wolves....the police need wolves... the pols want some wolves
    (or who would they 'protect' us from)....they daily slime need wolves..... the lawyers need
    wolves.....etc.....

    if you get a fair proportion of the later.....which you usually will.... you will be somewhat
    constrained to harness them and march them up and down.... that way you are bound to make the sheep
    more sheepish.....

    if you run the school to teach the sheep to think....sure as blazes the wolves will tear the place
    apart and likely set fire to it....

    as you will know....i want franchise by examination...... and i sure won't let any child i guide be
    placed in a sheep factory....other that as a lesson or to slow them down a little.... i sure won't
    put a sheep their to be turned more sheepish.....

    in the end i take the view that any real education in thinking is far more likely to come from the
    guardians rather then a school..... for such children...school is a place to socialise or to learn
    to jump through a hoop or 2....it is not a place to be educated in any serious sense.....

    schools are mostly prisons for the young to save the parents the job of raising them.... they are
    places where the worst of the idiocy of 'parents' can be modified...maybe...a bit.....

    to a great extent i think the whole institution is rather dodgy.... but what can you do when the
    society is well provided with idiots.....

    regards from the campaign for franchise by examination.....enjoy!

    web site at www.abelard.org - docs on power, ethics, inflation ..also education, logic and
    more....~1/3 million doc requests yearly --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- all that is
    necessary for I walk quietly and carry the triumph of evil is that I a big stick. good people do
    nothing I trust actions not words only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    On Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:18:43 +0000, JAF <[email protected]>

    typed:

    [q1]>On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:16:54 +0100, abelard <[email protected]> wrote:[/q1]

    [q2]>>who owns the child?[/q2]
    [q1]>[/q1]
    [q1]>I assume that's rhetorical?[/q1]

    no.... if the parent owns them....the school has little gripe.... if the government conditioning
    factory owns them....then why send them 'home' at all at all.....

    web site at www.abelard.org - docs on power, ethics, inflation ..also education, logic and
    more....~1/3 million doc requests yearly --
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- all that is
    necessary for I walk quietly and carry the triumph of evil is that I a big stick. good people do
    nothing I trust actions not words only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.dfes.gov.uk/pns/DisplayPN...n_id=2002_0030

    "Free up the curriculum with young people post-14 able to pursue individually focused programmes
    (Maths, English, ICT and Science will remain compulsory"

    The above will be the 'new' approach to be taken in schools.

    People complaining that young people know little of our history, be prepared.

    On the US version if 'Weakest Link' the other day, someone thought that the capital of Poland was
    Worcestershire...
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