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    (Original post by blissy)
    Music industry - I happened to see a TV programme called "making the band: hiphop" and it seemed that the criteria were: who can drawl the most, who can come up with the most inane lyrics about social security, being denied access to children, fighting with other men and driving about doing nothing, and who was considered to have the most attitude. If these really are the criteria for making a successful band/making it big in the music industry then it's encouraging this kind of behaviour!
    But still, look at the current leading black hip hop musicians for example. They'll have worked really hard learning to rap, effortlessly freestyle/MC, perfect their beatboxing skills, and spend years working hard to stand out from the crowd at underground clubs for example, to be where they are today.
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    (Original post by Mysticmin)
    Did anyone read/watch that programme about the black boy who was taken into a middle class family and sent to a public school for some time? He used to be underperforming but apparently he improved drastically, which supports the theory that environment affects acheivement.
    Ah yes, but he was also eventually expelled for being drunk and disorderly during term time.
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    Jools you might also want to look into bifurcation in american society, a divide opening up between a black middle class and lower class
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Race makes it a very difficult issue to deal with as there is a great inbalance and until there are black academic role models and large numbers of very good black teachers it will remain so.
    Indeed. As a side note, my brother works in a very large inner city school and often has "you're just picking on me cause I'm black" thrown at him quite regularly (in other words "Is it coz I is black, Sir?")
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    (Original post by H&E)
    Ah yes, but he was also eventually expelled for being drunk and disorderly during term time.
    But that could be attributed to the idea that the boy thought this was acceptable behaviour through his previous experiences.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Jools you might also want to look into bifurcation in american society, a divide opening up between a black middle class and lower class
    Interesting... is the same thing starting to happen here? A growth in relatively affluent middle class blacks?
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Interesting... is the same thing starting to happen here? A growth in relatively affluent middle class blacks?
    Yes, I think so, if you look at Burnley, most blacks live in ghettos, but the doctors, lawyers, accountants, teachers etc all live in the predominantly white areas where housing is more expensive but crime is less etc.
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    (Original post by Baron Huntroyde)
    I am not claiming anything, simply saying that this topic must be covered, even if it is immediately refuted and thrown out. It must be considered.
    It has been covered extensively in the last century in particular. In fact, the Third Reich (and the massive sums it invested in such research) has helped to make it clear that in scientific terms - a superior race does not exist. This is largely because race is difficult to interpret as a scientific concept, so therefore how can it be examined according to a scientific hypothesis? Following the capitulation of the Third Reich, similarly large sums of money were invested in serious research towards this question; this time around it was funded by the wealthy Jewish intelligensia. This grouping was keen to prove that the idea of an Aryan race was ludicrous and that their forefathers had suffered at the hands of it.

    Hitler was desperate to find some sort of genetic rationale for his activities, in particular his deliberate extermination of (a huge proportion) of European Jews. All that was found was evidence to the contrary.
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    (Original post by Jools)
    Interesting... is the same thing starting to happen here? A growth in relatively affluent middle class blacks?
    i am not sure but i study american civil rights in america for A2 history and its clear there. It would be certainly something to look into as it would be a reason if it was prevalent here.
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    Do you think any of this can be attributed to an attitude along the lines of "you're black, you're not supposed to/expected to do well"?
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    It has been covered extensively in the last century in particular. In fact, the Third Reich (and the massive sums it invested in such research) has helped to make it clear that in scientific terms - a superior race does not exist. This is largely because race is difficult to interpret as a scientific concept, so therefore how can it be examined according to a scientific hypothesis? Following the capitulation of the Third Reich, similarly large sums of money were invested in serious research towards this question; this time around it was funded by the wealthy Jewish intelligensia. This grouping was keen to prove that the idea of an Aryan race was ludicrous and that their forefathers had suffered at the hands of it.

    Hitler was desperate to find some sort of genetic rationale for his activities, in particular his deliberate extermination of (a huge proportion) of European Jews. All that was found was evidence to the contrary.
    Right well, there you go, the topic was raised and has apparently been refuted. That's all I was saying, it must be discussed, and it has, so I'm happy.
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    (Original post by blissy)
    Indeed. As a side note, my brother works in a very large inner city school and often has "you're just picking on me cause I'm black" thrown at him quite regularly (in other words "Is it coz I is black, Sir?")
    The phrase would have been based on witnessing some black people do this, or at least the perception that they blame problems on racism. Do you think black people are being unfairly stigmatised due to profiling?
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    (Original post by Mysticmin)
    But that could be attributed to the idea that the boy thought this was acceptable behaviour through his previous experiences.
    You can't interpret too much from his experience. He really was a guinea pig, I think Channel 4 were paying his fees in return for being allowed to follow him around with camera all day. No wonder he wanted some release, and found it via getting plastered. Furthermore, while most students who behaved like that would be suspended (at most) with him the school had no choice but to take harsh action to avoid looking a soft touch in public. In fact, of course, many public boarding schools work very hard to avoid expelling people despite very serious cases of substance abuse. They just do it quietly so no-one notices. This wasn't an option here. So, unfortunately, the only social experiment of this kind has proved completely useless.
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    (Original post by Baron Huntroyde)
    Yes, I think so, if you look at Burnley, most blacks live in ghettos, but the doctors, lawyers, accountants, teachers etc all live in the predominantly white areas where housing is more expensive but crime is less etc.
    id be interested to see which way they vote. middle-class African Americans still feel they are betraying the 'ghetto' if they dont blindly vote Democrat.
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    (Original post by blissy)
    Do you think any of this can be attributed to an attitude along the lines of "you're black, you're not supposed to/expected to do well"?
    This was the belief of my teacher at 6th form - she said that many teachers see a black person and don't expect them to do well in education, and have a "He looks athletic, he'll be a bricklayer" attitude.
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    (Original post by blissy)
    Do you think any of this can be attributed to an attitude along the lines of "you're black, you're not supposed to/expected to do well"?
    Absolutely! But I don't think it's just the non-black community which thinks this - it's fairly clear that while many blacks aspire to be top footballers, very few aspire to attending a Russel Group university, or something similar. And the few that do often suffer at the hands of their peers for doing so.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    id be interested to see which way they vote. middle-class African Americans still feel they are betraying the 'ghetto' if they dont blindly vote Democrat.
    I'd be interested to hear your ideas about the initial question Vienna.
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    (Original post by mobbdeeprob)
    It has been covered extensively in the last century in particular. In fact, the Third Reich (and the massive sums it invested in such research) has helped to make it clear that in scientific terms - a superior race does not exist. This is largely because race is difficult to interpret as a scientific concept, so therefore how can it be examined according to a scientific hypothesis? Following the capitulation of the Third Reich, similarly large sums of money were invested in serious research towards this question; this time around it was funded by the wealthy Jewish intelligensia. This grouping was keen to prove that the idea of an Aryan race was ludicrous and that their forefathers had suffered at the hands of it.

    Hitler was desperate to find some sort of genetic rationale for his activities, in particular his deliberate extermination of (a huge proportion) of European Jews. All that was found was evidence to the contrary.
    I don't understand what you're saying here, that a superior race doesn't exist BECAUSE no hypothesis can verify this? If so, that is a flawed argument.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    id be interested to see which way they vote. middle-class African Americans still feel they are betraying the 'ghetto' if they dont blindly vote Democrat.
    And do second generation middle class blacks vote differently to their parents?
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    (Original post by Jools)
    The phrase would have been based on witnessing some black people do this, or at least the perception that they blame problems on racism. Do you think black people are being unfairly stigmatised due to profiling?
    Well, I know my brother would only pick on the disruptive students. He says it's highly irritating when they come back at him with that response because it undermines his authority. I can't really speak about profiling because I know nothing about it and have had no experiences of it, but it would seem that those in his class that come back with that seem to be doing it mainly just to undermine his authority.
 
 
 
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