Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

Bush and Ethics watch

Announcements
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by vienna95)
    its a debate, who said it was political? assuming a few MORAL TRUTHS? the problem is i dont agree with your moral truths!

    So you don't agree that when someone gets better or worse off this is connected to rightness and wrongness?

    its slightly hypocritical to talk about starting from 'first things' when i offered you this solution some time ago, when we define what moral to be.


    Urm I think everyone agrees human welfare relates to the concepts of rightness and wrongness. It's not hypocritical to say that you're being childish.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I want to start again because at the moment nothing is happening. The best way to argue this out is to start point by point, so let's recap.


    +When someone's welfare changes as the result of an act, the act is connected to concepts of rightness and wrongness, goodness and badness, justice and injustice, and other predicates of the word 'moral'.

    Tell me where you find a flaw in that premise.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    A lot of these postings sadden me because if you reversed some of these questions and asked, in the USA, these question, the answers would be totally different. For example, there is a question asking if British people hated the USA. About 1/4 of the people that responded said yes. In the USA, if you asked if we hated the British, you would probably be laughed at or slapped for asking such an absurd question. I can guarantee that 99% of Americans are total Anglophiles. We might be a little annoyed at you guys for exporting some really awful unreliable, rust bucket cars in the 70s, but that is as far as it goes. I am a bit surprised that there are so many people that dislike the USA. Americans love the UK and would be very surprised to read some of the comments on this forum. I don't think most of us know that the feelings aren't mutual

    I wanted to make a few points:

    #1 I wonder how many people who have been criticising the USA have actually been there. The only way you can learn about a country, if you have never been there, is to learn about it from what you here on the news. I don't think that is an accurate way to learn about a country.

    #2 The statment "I like americans, but I don't like their government" is not a very intelligent comment. Americans vote in their leaders. Obviously, we are in favor of their policies, or we wouldn't have voted for Bush

    #3 Bush won the election. End of story. Yes, he may have one the popular vote, but that isn't how elections work in the USA. We have a system called the electoral college. It's a brilliant setup where small states with different needs have their voices heard. If not for the electoral college, elections would be dominated by voters in heavily populated areas such as New York or California. What is right for a person in New York City may not suit a farmer in Nebraska. Votes were counted over and over again in Florida and each time Bush was the winner.

    #4 Regarding the link that plays the Fox news clip- The channel probably had a person come on the air to give an opposing view to counter what the commentator said. Fox news has had some people that have defended the BBC just as vehemently. Whoever put up that link obviously has some sort of agenda and did some careful editing.

    #5 As Vienna95 said in some other posts, how many of you really know about Bush's policies? You all say you don't like them, but how many of you know what they are? He has done a lot of good in America.
    Taxes have been lowered and I now have more money in my pocket to support myself and pay my mortgage. My standard of living has gone up and the tax cuts played a big role in that. He signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history!
    Bush supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
    He reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
    He turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
    Tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals have been passed.
    He is working on getting Partial Birth Abortion banned. Partial Birth Abortion allows a woman to have an abortion as late as the 9th month!
    States are able to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
    $20 million has been given to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
    A fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled has been created.
    Bush is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
    The No Child Left Behind Act was signed, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation
    Now, please tell me which of these policies you are opposed to?

    #6 Most of you have a problem with Iraq. I think a lot of Europeans don't have all of the facts. This is a letter from Ray Reynolds, a medic in the Iowa Army National Guard, serving in Iraq:

    As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to >the >version that your paper is producing.)
    * Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
    * School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
    * Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
    * The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
    * The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
    * Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
    * The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before;the war.
    * 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
    * Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
    * Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
    * Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
    * Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
    * Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
    * Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.
    * Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques >to prevent the spread of germs.
    * An interim constitution has been signed.
    * Girls are allowed to attend school.
    * Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years. Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but >they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.

    Ray Reynolds, SFC
    Iowa Army National Guard
    234th Signal Battalion


    #7 The abuses going on in Iraq are isolated incidences. A few soldier have done some things that they shouldn't have, but it pales in comparison to the savage brutality that has been going on for decades in that that part of the world. There are

    #8 300,000 people were found in mass graves. Sadaam has gassed tens of thousands of kurds and was killing about 16,000 of his own people each year. He had to be stopped.

    #9 I am tired of hearing people say Bush is stupid. He is a lousy speaker. We all know that. He isn't stupid though. He went to Yale and Harvard What schools did you geniouses go to?

    #10 He is the only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    #3 Bush won the election. End of story. Yes, he may have one the popular vote, but that isn't how elections work in the USA. We have a system called the electoral college. It's a brilliant setup where small states with different needs have their voices heard. If not for the electoral college, elections would be dominated by voters in heavily populated areas such as New York or California. What is right for a person in New York City may not suit a farmer in Nebraska. Votes were counted over and over again in Florida and each time Bush was the winner.
    But what about the thousands of blacks who were not allowed the vote becuase of "mistakes" who almost certainly would have voted democrat?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lepr)
    I want to start again because at the moment nothing is happening. The best way to argue this out is to start point by point, so let's recap.


    +When someone's welfare changes as the result of an act, the act is connected to concepts of rightness and wrongness, goodness and badness, justice and injustice, and other predicates of the word 'moral'.

    Tell me where you find a flaw in that premise.
    "the act is connected to concepts of rightness and wrongness"

    why and how?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    A lot of these postings sadden me because if you reversed some of these questions and asked, in the USA, these question, the answers would be totally different. For example, there is a question asking if British people hated the USA. About 1/4 of the people that responded said yes. In the USA, if you asked if we hated the British, you would probably be laughed at or slapped for asking such an absurd question. I can guarantee that 99% of Americans are total Anglophiles. We might be a little annoyed at you guys for exporting some really awful unreliable, rust bucket cars in the 70s, but that is as far as it goes. I am a bit surprised that there are so many people that dislike the USA. Americans love the UK and would be very surprised to read some of the comments on this forum. I don't think most of us know that the feelings aren't mutual
    thanks for your input. i can assure you they are mutual in my house!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    [QUOTE=Made in the USA]#9 I am tired of hearing people say Bush is stupid. He is a lousy speaker. We all know that. He isn't stupid though. He went to Yale and Harvard What schools did you geniouses go to?
    QUOTE]

    IT'S CLEARLY A BUDGET. IT'S GOT A LOT OF NUMBERS IN IT.

    I UNDERSTAND SMALL BUSINESS GROWTH. I WAS ONE.

    two quotes.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by vienna95)
    "the act is connected to concepts of rightness and wrongness"

    why and how?
    Don't selectively quote, take the whole point in its entirety.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    Originally Posted by Baron Huntroyde
    "But what about the thousands of blacks who were not allowed the vote becuase of "mistakes" who almost certainly would have voted democrat?"

    This is not true. It never happened
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Baron Huntroyde)
    But what about the thousands of blacks who were not allowed the vote becuase of "mistakes" who almost certainly would have voted democrat?
    they were registered as felons. conspiracists claim they were not felons and were listed on purpose. there is as yet no a) proof to suggest this is the case b) any accurate figures or indeed open challenge from anyone who appears to have been prevented from voting illegally c) any challenge from the Democrat campaign d) any challenge or proof raised by every national newspaper and major state paper who conducted investigations into the alleged 'fixing' and found nothing wrong.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lepr)
    Don't selectively quote, take the whole point in its entirety.
    "Tell me where you find a flaw in that premise" - do you remember what you say?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Originally Posted by Baron Huntroyde
    "But what about the thousands of blacks who were not allowed the vote becuase of "mistakes" who almost certainly would have voted democrat?"

    This is not true. It never happened
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...9749-2001May30

    Vienna - they admitted their mistake, letters of apology were sent out, but no re-election was done.

    What's more, clearly many Americans are unaware of this, such as "Made in the USA"
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    IT'S CLEARLY A BUDGET. IT'S GOT A LOT OF NUMBERS IN IT.
    hehe, he was being light-hearted you fools!

    I UNDERSTAND SMALL BUSINESS GROWTH. I WAS ONE.
    two quotes.
    nothing wrong with that. doesnt sound great, but its not wrong.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Baron Huntroyde)
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...9749-2001May30

    Vienna - they admitted their mistake, letters of apology were sent out, but no re-election was done.
    doesnt contradict anything i said.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Not getting involved in the debate at the moment, just putting in a couple of dictionary definitions from "The Concise Oxford Dictionary" - OK Vienna? OK everyone else

    settles back to continue watching with interest.

    moral
    · adj.
    1 concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour and the goodness or badness of human character.
    2 adhering to the code of behaviour that is considered right or acceptable.
    · n.
    1 a lesson that can be derived from a story or experience.
    2 (morals) standards of behaviour, or principles of right and wrong.
    – DERIVATIVES morally adv.
    – ORIGIN ME: from L. moralis, from mos, mor- ‘custom’, (pl.) mores ‘morals’.

    ethical
    · adj.
    1 of or relating to moral principles or the branch of knowledge concerned with these.
    2 morally correct.
    3 (of a medicine) available only on prescription.
    – DERIVATIVES ethicality n. ethically adv.

    economic /%i;[email protected]"nQmIk, Ek-/
    · adj.
    1 of or relating to economics or the economy.
    2 justified in terms of profitability.
    – ORIGIN ME: via OFr. and L. from Gk oikonomikos, from oikonomia (see economy).

    wrong
    · adj.
    1 not correct or true. Ø mistaken.
    2 unjust, dishonest, or immoral.
    3 in a bad or abnormal condition; amiss.
    · adv. in an unsuitable or undesirable manner or direction. Ø with an incorrect result.
    · n. an unjust, dishonest, or immoral action.
    · v. act unjustly or dishonestly towards. Ø mistakenly attribute bad motives to; misrepresent.
    – PHRASES get someone wrong misunderstand someone, especially by falsely imputing malice. get (hold of) the wrong end of the stick misunderstand something. in the wrong responsible for a mistake or offence.
    – DERIVATIVES wronger n. wrongly adv. wrongness n.
    – ORIGIN OE wrang, from ON rangr ‘awry, unjust’; rel. to wring.

    right
    · adj.
    1 morally good, justified, or acceptable.
    2 factually correct. Ø most appropriate. Ø socially fashionable or important.
    3 in a satisfactory, sound, or normal state or condition.
    4 on, towards, or relating to the side of a human body or of a thing which is to the east when the person or thing is facing north.
    5 informal, chiefly Brit. complete; absolute.
    6 of or relating to a right-wing person or group.
    · adv.
    1 to the furthest or most complete extent or degree. Ø exactly; directly. Ø informal immediately. Ø dialect or archaic very.
    2 correctly. Ø satisfactorily.
    3 on or to the right side.
    · n.
    1 that which is morally right.
    2 a moral or legal entitlement to have or do something. Ø (rights) the authority to perform, publish, or film a particular work or event.
    3 (the right) the right-hand part, side, or direction. Ø a right turn. Ø a person’s right fist, or a blow given with it.
    4 (often the Right) [treated as sing. or pl.] a group or political party favouring conservative views.
    · v.
    1 restore to a normal or upright position. Ø restore to a normal or correct condition.
    2 rectify. Ø archaic compensate.
    · exclam. informal indicating agreement or acknowledging a statement or order.
    – PHRASES bang (or N. Amer. dead) to rights informal (of a criminal) with positive proof of guilt. be in the right be justified in one’s views or actions. by rights if things were fair or correct. do right by treat fairly. in one’s own right as a result of one’s own claims, qualifications, or efforts. (as) of right (or by right) due to a moral or legal claim or entitlement. put (or set) someone right tell someone the true facts of a situation. put (or set) something to rights restore something to its correct or normal state. (as) right as rain informal completely well or healthy. right (or straight) away (or informal off) immediately. right on informal expressing support, approval, or encouragement. a right one Brit. informal a silly or foolish person. she’s (or she’ll be) right Austral./NZ informal don’t worry.
    – DERIVATIVES rightable adj. righter n. rightish adj. rightmost adj. rightness n. rightward adj. & adv. rightwards adv.
    – ORIGIN OE riht (adj. and n.), rihtan (v.), rihte (adv.), of Gmc origin; rel. to L. rectus ‘ruled’.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by vienna95)
    doesnt contradict anything i said.
    Some of them were not and never had been felons.

    No challenge was made because this practice is "legal" under US law, though it clearly shouldn't be.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by vienna95)
    "Tell me where you find a flaw in that premise" - do you remember what you say?
    Look, the 3 step logical argument is flawless, any flaw you find in it is a result of your own misunderstanding, not the veracity of the argument.

    +A decision which affects the welfare of people is connected with morality.

    +An economic policy affects people, so it is has to be concerned with morality.

    +George bush supports an economic policy, and since the policy does affect people, and he is aware of this, he is making a decision concerning morality.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by vienna95)
    hehe, he was being light-hearted you fools!



    nothing wrong with that. doesnt sound great, but its not wrong.
    How about this?

    'More and more of our imports are coming from overseas'
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lepr)
    How about this?

    'More and more of our imports are coming from overseas'
    Or "I've been abroad twice, once was to Disney Land"

    Or to Charlotte Church "Wales, which state is that in?"
 
 
 
Poll
Do I go to The Streets tomorrow night?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.