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Want to go into Medical/Basic Research

Hi all,
I want to go into either Medical or Basic Research, but I have an offer to study medicine.
Does doing a medical degree prevent from going into basic research or can it enhance or boost this career prospect; and would I be bound to go into some form of clinical work for the rest of my career?

Thanks
It definitely can enhance and boost the career prospect. Its not the most "efficient way" to do things, but you'll actually have a strength in translational research that may be useful.

Definitely take the medical degree, first if you change your mind you can always practice clinical medicine and it doesn't hinder you from pursuing a basic science career. If this is your dream consider the UCL or Cambridge MB/PhD program in your first year of medical school.
Original post by Okorange
It definitely can enhance and boost the career prospect. Its not the most "efficient way" to do things, but you'll actually have a strength in translational research that may be useful.

Definitely take the medical degree, first if you change your mind you can always practice clinical medicine and it doesn't hinder you from pursuing a basic science career. If this is your dream consider the UCL or Cambridge MB/PhD program in your first year of medical school.


I applied for medicine because I knew there were different pathways to go into and if I didnt like research then clinical work was always an option. I'm just not sure how my researched variety will be hindered as I have a medical degree rather than a PhD.

I have an offer from Imperial so I have been looking at the Imperial Mb/PhD option and that is the perfect combination I want! I'm not sure what you meant by considerring UCL or Cambridge though, I'm guessing you have to be in the respective unis to consider their Mb/PhD programs?
Can I still go into basic research or would options be limited?
I have been checking online and most websites don't mention medical degrees with basic research which got me worried.

Thanks for your advice

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Dinosaurus_Rex
I applied for medicine because I knew there were different pathways to go into and if I didnt like research then clinical work was always an option. I'm just not sure how my researched variety will be hindered as I have a medical degree rather than a PhD.

I have an offer from Imperial so I have been looking at the Imperial Mb/PhD option and that is the perfect combination I want! I'm not sure what you meant by considerring UCL or Cambridge though, I'm guessing you have to be in the respective unis to consider their Mb/PhD programs?
Can I still go into basic research or would options be limited?
I have been checking online and most websites don't mention medical degrees with basic research which got me worried.

Thanks for your advice

Posted from TSR Mobile


I'm in the exact same position (2015 medicine offer, want to get into research as well as doing clinical side), nice to see someone with the same plans! 😊 I also know of someone with the same plan who's a junior doctor currently (doing academic foundation programme).

I would certainly hope that doing medicine won't hinder our research career prospects! I thought that clinical academics were in demand? Yeah I guess that doing a medical degree isn't the most efficient way of getting into research but hey, you're going to be intercalating at Imperial so that should help (assuming you do a sciencey thing for your intercalation year).

I'm told that a PhD is pretty much necessary to get anywhere in research so yeah I would try the Imperial MB PhD programme if they run something like that? Anyway based on how the Cambridge one is set up (just adds three years onto your 6-year course) I don't see how you'd be missing out on much if you just did the PhD after the medical degree.

Definitely do the medical degree first, I don't need to tell you how difficult it is to get an offer and it's far easier to do medicine first then go into research than vice versa. Also with a medical degree you'll have more or less guaranteed employment once you graduate, a biosciences degree less so.

And whether you'd have to do clinical work - I'm curious to know about this as well, but I imagine that if you really want to you can just stop being a doctor and become a full-time researcher. Or vice versa!


Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Dinosaurus_Rex
I applied for medicine because I knew there were different pathways to go into and if I didnt like research then clinical work was always an option. I'm just not sure how my researched variety will be hindered as I have a medical degree rather than a PhD.

I have an offer from Imperial so I have been looking at the Imperial Mb/PhD option and that is the perfect combination I want! I'm not sure what you meant by considerring UCL or Cambridge though, I'm guessing you have to be in the respective unis to consider their Mb/PhD programs?
Can I still go into basic research or would options be limited?
I have been checking online and most websites don't mention medical degrees with basic research which got me worried.

Thanks for your advice

Posted from TSR Mobile


I think UCL and Cambridge take external applicants as well, but since you are going to Imperial and they have their own, of course consider theirs first.
If you want to go into research, why not just study biomed or a basic science? Studying medicine is stupid unless you want to be a doctor.
Original post by Rhetorical Hips
I'm in the exact same position (2015 medicine offer, want to get into research as well as doing clinical side), nice to see someone with the same plans! 😊 I also know of someone with the same plan who's a junior doctor currently (doing academic foundation programme).

I would certainly hope that doing medicine won't hinder our research career prospects! I thought that clinical academics were in demand? Yeah I guess that doing a medical degree isn't the most efficient way of getting into research but hey, you're going to be intercalating at Imperial so that should help (assuming you do a sciencey thing for your intercalation year).

I'm told that a PhD is pretty much necessary to get anywhere in research so yeah I would try the Imperial MB PhD programme if they run something like that? Anyway based on how the Cambridge one is set up (just adds three years onto your 6-year course) I don't see how you'd be missing out on much if you just did the PhD after the medical degree.

Definitely do the medical degree first, I don't need to tell you how difficult it is to get an offer and it's far easier to do medicine first then go into research than vice versa. Also with a medical degree you'll have more or less guaranteed employment once you graduate, a biosciences degree less so.

And whether you'd have to do clinical work - I'm curious to know about this as well, but I imagine that if you really want to you can just stop being a doctor and become a full-time researcher. Or vice versa!


Posted from TSR Mobile


This is great advice, thanks! Good to know you are in the same position as I am in!
This is exactly how I am thinking. What if I do a standard biochemistry degree and I realise I don't like it? Medicine offers so many more pathways and I just hope that the research pathway does not close for me if I complete a medical degree. If you have any more information about this, that will be great!
I hope everything goes well for you.

Original post by Okorange
I think UCL and Cambridge take external applicants as well, but since you are going to Imperial and they have their own, of course consider theirs first.


Thanks! I'm not sure if you know but are these Mb/PhD options completely separate from applying to medical school? Ie we have to apply for this on UCAS or do we apply once we get into medical school?
Do you know what percentage of applicants who apply are successfully offered a place in this scheme?

Original post by Hype en Ecosse
If you want to go into research, why not just study biomed or a basic science? Studying medicine is stupid unless you want to be a doctor.


I am telling myself this aswell. I have only recently seriously thought about going into research, after I got my medicine offer.
However I am still open to clinical practice as well as research. I might not like research and decide that a medical doctor might be a better option, but at this moment I'm stilk not sure. I know its a relatively 'inefficient' pathway into basic research.
I'm not sure if you know how much research a medical degree or Mb/PhD programme can get you into?


Thanks for all your help.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Dinosaurus_Rex

I am telling myself this aswell. I have only recently seriously thought about going into research, after I got my medicine offer.
However I am still open to clinical practice as well as research. I might not like research and decide that a medical doctor might be a better option, but at this moment I'm stilk not sure. I know its a relatively 'inefficient' pathway into basic research.
I'm not sure if you know how much research a medical degree or Mb/PhD programme can get you into?


Thanks for all your help.

Posted from TSR Mobile


An MB / PhD is just as valid as any other PhD for access into research. Your options are more limited with an MBBS, but basic science research is still accessible in the same way with further study (intercalated degree, then onto postgraduate courses, and extracurricular research projects to pad your CV).

The key regarding medicine is to forget all about research at the moment. Medicine does not train you to be a research scientist; there is very little basic science teaching; and very little on the course to do with basic science research. It is effectively a training programme to become a medical doctor. If you want to be a doctor, you study medicine. If you do not want to be a doctor, you do not study medicine. That's the question you need to answer: yes or no. Not whether you can do basic science research with an MBBS. That's irrelevant to whether or not you should take the offer.
As Hype en Ecosse has pointed out, medicine is not the best preparation if you want to be a research scientist, there is little in the way of the sort of teaching (let alone lab work) needed, which is why people who have done a medicine degree and then later want to do research do an MRes then a PhD.
Most people who do this are wanting to also work as a doctor, and most frequently are interested in clinical research rather than basic science research. The combined MB/PhD seems to also be aimed at these types of people.
A medical degree would not prevent you from doing the type of research you describe, but as it does not include the necessary training you are looking at even more years of training (and spending more money on it) on top of the already long MBBS in order to get where you want to be. It doesn't seem like the best option for you imho.

On the other hand you do already have a medicine offer; have you changed your mind about careers since you applied?
Original post by Hype en Ecosse
An MB / PhD is just as valid as any other PhD for access into research. Your options are more limited with an MBBS, but basic science research is still accessible in the same way with further study (intercalated degree, then onto postgraduate courses, and extracurricular research projects to pad your CV).

The key regarding medicine is to forget all about research at the moment. Medicine does not train you to be a research scientist; there is very little basic science teaching; and very little on the course to do with basic science research. It is effectively a training programme to become a medical doctor. If you want to be a doctor, you study medicine. If you do not want to be a doctor, you do not study medicine. That's the question you need to answer: yes or no. Not whether you can do basic science research with an MBBS. That's irrelevant to whether or not you should take the offer.


I know the primary option of medicine is to become a Clinical Doctor, but I don't think it is a black and white question. I have seen people who have a medical degree but move on to do applied or clinical research. I was just thinking if doing a medical degree is a viable option to go into full time scientific research (rather than translational research).
I have also seen intercalating options and the MB/PhD option and they do seem to prepare for research orientated careers rather than the standard clinical medicine pathway.

Original post by theresheglows
As Hype en Ecosse has pointed out, medicine is not the best preparation if you want to be a research scientist, there is little in the way of the sort of teaching (let alone lab work) needed, which is why people who have done a medicine degree and then later want to do research do an MRes then a PhD.
Most people who do this are wanting to also work as a doctor, and most frequently are interested in clinical research rather than basic science research. The combined MB/PhD seems to also be aimed at these types of people.
A medical degree would not prevent you from doing the type of research you describe, but as it does not include the necessary training you are looking at even more years of training (and spending more money on it) on top of the already long MBBS in order to get where you want to be. It doesn't seem like the best option for you imho.

On the other hand you do already have a medicine offer; have you changed your mind about careers since you applied?


I have always had an idea for research and especially into basic research (as opposed to translational research). However I applied for medicine as I knew that I had different options to go into and when I applied I did think about a career as a medical doctor. However it only recently grew on me that I don't like working in a hospital on a patient by patient basis, but more providing an answer to cure a whole group of patients. I havn't had much experience in labs but I have shadowed various doctors and surgeons to get some sort of feeling of how a medical Doctor works.

I'm still unsure whether or not a career into research is right for me, which is why I went into medicine as this still gives me the option to go onto basic research.
Original post by Dinosaurus_Rex
This is great advice, thanks! Good to know you are in the same position as I am in!
This is exactly how I am thinking. What if I do a standard biochemistry degree and I realise I don't like it? Medicine offers so many more pathways and I just hope that the research pathway does not close for me if I complete a medical degree. If you have any more information about this, that will be great!
I hope everything goes well for you.
_______________________________________

Thanks! I'm not sure if you know but are these Mb/PhD options completely separate from applying to medical school? Ie we have to apply for this on UCAS or do we apply once we get into medical school?
Do you know what percentage of applicants who apply are successfully offered a place in this scheme?

Thanks for all your help.


No problem and thanks! I warn you though, as I'm only a medical applicant you should probably take my advice with a pinch of salt, or at least put less weight on it compared to others in this forum (who I believe are all med students and beyond). I know that for the Cambridge MB/PhD programme, you only get to apply to it once you are in your third year, and it's as simple as ticking a box to show interest - it's a competitive process with a really limited number of places (I think Cambridge's MB/PhD scheme takes on something like 12 people a year from 250ish, although obviously not all apply) so if you're good enough they may invite you to interview. I imagine that Imperial's won't be too different but I would just look around their med school webiste and see what you can find.
You must certainly can do basic science research with a MBBS. I know even neurosurgeons who run their own basic science lab. Having medical knowledge can help somewhat with identifying problems and being connected with the actual effects of the diseases you are studying. Sure its not the most efficient way, but for someone who doesn't know what they want to do yet its a good way of doing things. Another aspect is that clinician scientists can also still work as a physician, you don't have to necessarily choose one or the other, but eventually you do have to pick to focus on one or the other. You can't be a top researcher and a top clinician there just isn't enough time in a day.
Original post by Rhetorical Hips
I'm in the exact same position (2015 medicine offer, want to get into research as well as doing clinical side), nice to see someone with the same plans! 😊 I also know of someone with the same plan who's a junior doctor currently (doing academic foundation programme).

I would certainly hope that doing medicine won't hinder our research career prospects! I thought that clinical academics were in demand? Yeah I guess that doing a medical degree isn't the most efficient way of getting into research but hey, you're going to be intercalating at Imperial so that should help (assuming you do a sciencey thing for your intercalation year).

I'm told that a PhD is pretty much necessary to get anywhere in research so yeah I would try the Imperial MB PhD programme if they run something like that? Anyway based on how the Cambridge one is set up (just adds three years onto your 6-year course) I don't see how you'd be missing out on much if you just did the PhD after the medical degree.

Definitely do the medical degree first, I don't need to tell you how difficult it is to get an offer and it's far easier to do medicine first then go into research than vice versa. Also with a medical degree you'll have more or less guaranteed employment once you graduate, a biosciences degree less so.

And whether you'd have to do clinical work - I'm curious to know about this as well, but I imagine that if you really want to you can just stop being a doctor and become a full-time researcher. Or vice versa!


Posted from TSR Mobile


Second year medic here...since I started medical school I've become interested in research and there is plenty of opportunities in medschool to get involved. I hope to stay involved upon graduation hopefully and do research part time and GP part time.
If you want to do lab work and research etc don't do medicine.
A lot of medicine is just pure rote learning to get through exams and they are training you to do a job and communicate with patients so a lot of your time will not be doing the basic sciences and doing all the fluffy communication skills. If you like all the nitty gritty chemistry and biochemistry there is very limited amounts on a medical degree and I have never step foot in a lab or done really any chemistry at all (My highest chemistry qualification is a C at GCSE...).
If you really want to do the complicated super clever molecular stuff do a sciences degree and go that way into a PhD, don't just do medicine because you can get the grades and your parents/school said it'd be a good idea
Original post by Okorange
You must certainly can do basic science research with a MBBS. I know even neurosurgeons who run their own basic science lab. Having medical knowledge can help somewhat with identifying problems and being connected with the actual effects of the diseases you are studying. Sure its not the most efficient way, but for someone who doesn't know what they want to do yet its a good way of doing things. Another aspect is that clinician scientists can also still work as a physician, you don't have to necessarily choose one or the other, but eventually you do have to pick to focus on one or the other. You can't be a top researcher and a top clinician there just isn't enough time in a day.


This is great news! As someone who doesn't know what to do in the future, I know that this will be a great place to start as I can see both the clinical aspects and lab aspects of medicine. I can look into this in more detail in the coming years before I can finally decide what is better for me.
Having a medical degree sure doesn't negate all the chances of basic research (I hope!), but If I am able to do a PhD then I can mix a career of research with clinical practice, or if not then just go into one of the two.
Thanks a lot for the advice, its really appreciated!

Original post by derma2019
Second year medic here...since I started medical school I've become interested in research and there is plenty of opportunities in medschool to get involved. I hope to stay involved upon graduation hopefully and do research part time and GP part time.


It's great to know that someone in medical school already has a chance of doing research (whether its basic research I dont know?) and that no door has closed on me just yet. Thanks!

Original post by lcsurfer
If you want to do lab work and research etc don't do medicine.
A lot of medicine is just pure rote learning to get through exams and they are training you to do a job and communicate with patients so a lot of your time will not be doing the basic sciences and doing all the fluffy communication skills. If you like all the nitty gritty chemistry and biochemistry there is very limited amounts on a medical degree and I have never step foot in a lab or done really any chemistry at all (My highest chemistry qualification is a C at GCSE...).
If you really want to do the complicated super clever molecular stuff do a sciences degree and go that way into a PhD, don't just do medicine because you can get the grades and your parents/school said it'd be a good idea


Oh right. Is there no chance that I can do a PhD during or after medical school or are chances very limited? (ie the very best of the best can only progress to doing a PhD?) I have heard that Doctors can go into basic research but a PhD is very important to get started.
Original post by Dinosaurus_Rex
This is great news! As someone who doesn't know what to do in the future, I know that this will be a great place to start as I can see both the clinical aspects and lab aspects of medicine. I can look into this in more detail in the coming years before I can finally decide what is better for me.
Having a medical degree sure doesn't negate all the chances of basic research (I hope!), but If I am able to do a PhD then I can mix a career of research with clinical practice, or if not then just go into one of the two.
Thanks a lot for the advice, its really appreciated!



It's great to know that someone in medical school already has a chance of doing research (whether its basic research I dont know?) and that no door has closed on me just yet. Thanks!



Oh right. Is there no chance that I can do a PhD during or after medical school or are chances very limited? (ie the very best of the best can only progress to doing a PhD?) I have heard that Doctors can go into basic research but a PhD is very important to get started.


Yes you can during medical school after 3rd or 4th year for 3 years, but its very uncommon. The majority of medics who do a PhD tend to do it later on after graduating and working abit.
Original post by Dinosaurus_Rex

Oh right. Is there no chance that I can do a PhD during or after medical school or are chances very limited? (ie the very best of the best can only progress to doing a PhD?) I have heard that Doctors can go into basic research but a PhD is very important to get started.


You can do a PhD after, but why waste 6+ years of medical school where over half of it is patient interaction and more soft science/rote learning signs and symptoms if what you want to do is pure research. Why not do a hard core science degree for 3/4 years and then go straight into a PhD (this is how i know many people have done it), it's no way less impressive if that's your concern, in anyway i think it's more so as I couldn't do all that science.

Have you done work experience in medicine and want to do the patient contact as you will have to do medical school (6 years) plus another 4+ years of training on the job before even considering a PhD as most of them are to do with the specialty you want to go into.
Original post by lcsurfer
If you want to do lab work and research etc don't do medicine.
A lot of medicine is just pure rote learning to get through exams and they are training you to do a job and communicate with patients so a lot of your time will not be doing the basic sciences and doing all the fluffy communication skills. If you like all the nitty gritty chemistry and biochemistry there is very limited amounts on a medical degree and I have never step foot in a lab or done really any chemistry at all (My highest chemistry qualification is a C at GCSE...).
If you really want to do the complicated super clever molecular stuff do a sciences degree and go that way into a PhD, don't just do medicine because you can get the grades and your parents/school said it'd be a good idea


Surely academic clinicians do both lab work and clinical stuff? I thought that was a well-recognised career path?

You do clinical medicine, then also do a PhD, and can do both research and clinical practice?

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