Question for pro-immigration people Watch

le_darkhorse
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So the most recent net migration figures were reported as being just shy of 400,000 people. This number has been growing year on year and with more numbers will be more relatives and more friends of the immigrants and therefore naturally this number unless prevented wil only rise and get bigger and bigger.

England does NOT have the land space of say Russia or USA. It is a rather small island which is already full.

So my question is this - if you support immigration then what is your alternative suggestion in remaining sustainable in years to come IF you choose not to halt immigration to some degree? What will be the numbers coming in in 10 years or so and what will be the population if uncontrolled? How can we cope with increasing demand for services? London is already packed to the rafters (I live there). I also have family based way away from London and immigrants have spilled out into those areas also.

The answer is we will hit a brick wall in 5-10 years or so.

So pro-immigration people - if you support it then you MUST be able to explain how you will sustain these numbers in coming years. How?
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le_darkhorse
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Funny isn't it. You promote anti immigration and they come at you like a ton of bricks but go quiet when probed on what their ideas are about sustaining such immigration. Says it all.
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RF_PineMarten
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I'm a bit worried about the possible environmental side of it - population growth (however it happens) could mean urbanisation and increased need for food production. Urbanisation destroys areas of countryside and increased demand for food production could mean agricultural intensification and pressure on conservation (some projects often take agricultural land out of production, like woodland creation).

I'm unsure about immigration and could be convinced either way if adequate evidence addressed my concerns. How fast is population growing? How much of that is because of immigration? What sort of land would be needed over the long term to house that? etc. I don't really know because few people talk about it. I feel the population growth and environment side of it has been overlooked because of the likes of UKIP who prefer to talk about "taking our jobs" and "using our benefits". I think it's something that should at least be discussed.
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democracyforum
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I would tolerate 3 million a year,

to answer your question.
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aliendays
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In my opinion It's a myth that we don't have enough actual space, less than 7% of the land in the UK is actually built on. Other studies have found that 98% of the UK still remains 'natural' - though I'm not keen on the idea of building on green belt land, there is plenty of room for expansion if it's needed.

Cities like London have always been crowded with a high concentration of people, making it unsanitary and chocked full of pollution historically, you should move if you don't like it.

Funding things like the NHS could easily be done if governments prioritised tax avoidance of corporations. Cafe Nero alone have not paid corporation tax in the UK since 2008. Stricter regulations could create 100's of billions for the NHS to expand and improve public transport and other services.

Also the amount of people leaving the country will probably begin to substantially increase in the future with the economic development of China, India, Brazil and other Middle Eastern and Asian countries. People with degrees in this country will probably find better economic rewards elsewhere around the world where the skills are in higher demand.

I have never thought about a plan to control sustainable immigration, but these points seem like common sense to consider.
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le_darkhorse
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Where did you hear that less than 7% of land here is built on? I can't believe that at all. Sounds completely false. Take London for example ... how much of that is built on? Large majority pal. Don't know where your stats are coming from.
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StrangeBanana
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(Original post by le_darkhorse)
Where did you hear that less than 7% of land here is built on? I can't believe that at all. Sounds completely false. Take London for example ... how much of that is built on? Large majority pal. Don't know where your stats are coming from.
Obviously, London is the capital. :indiff: The country as a whole has plenty of empty space. Your intuition is trumped by research.
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AlmostNotable
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I am all for pro-immigration and I have the perfect solution.

Hunger games.
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le_darkhorse
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(Original post by StrangeBanana)
Obviously, London is the capital. :indiff: The country as a whole has plenty of empty space. Your intuition is trumped by research.
Um and what is that empty space? Parks? I don't want to destroy parks to accomodate migrants from Europe thanks.

Aalso there are only around 20 green belts in the UK. So ignoring those what exactly is the empty space? define it.
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Arndale
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(Original post by le_darkhorse)
So the most recent net migration figures were reported as being just shy of 400,000 people. This number has been growing year on year and with more numbers will be more relatives and more friends of the immigrants and therefore naturally this number unless prevented wil only rise and get bigger and bigger.

England does NOT have the land space of say Russia or USA. It is a rather small island which is already full.

So my question is this - if you support immigration then what is your alternative suggestion in remaining sustainable in years to come IF you choose not to halt immigration to some degree? What will be the numbers coming in in 10 years or so and what will be the population if uncontrolled? How can we cope with increasing demand for services? London is already packed to the rafters (I live there). I also have family based way away from London and immigrants have spilled out into those areas also.

The answer is we will hit a brick wall in 5-10 years or so.

So pro-immigration people - if you support it then you MUST be able to explain how you will sustain these numbers in coming years. How?
I think immigration has gone way past sensible levels and some parts of the country no longer resemble Britain.

I would support voluntary repatriation.




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StrangeBanana
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(Original post by le_darkhorse)
Um and what is that empty space? Parks? I don't want to destroy parks to accomodate migrants from Europe thanks.Aalso there are only around 20 green belts in the UK. So ignoring those what exactly is the empty space? define it.
Well in urban areas yes, parks. In non-urban areas, well, pretty much the entire area. :P

Look, mate, I'm afraid the National Ecosystem Assessment's published results trump your constipated yammering.
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skunkboy
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Lol. Some immigrants can work harder than some lazy British people. Also those immigrants need less money. We can build some flats for immigrants so they can pay by installments. No problems about their places. Lol.

Immigrants can live in UK if they work hard & pay taxes. Those lazy British people who often goof off from their work & try to avoid paying taxes should be kicked out of the country.

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A level sufferer
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I'm an immigrant and I say we should make it harder for anyone (British or immigrant) to collect benefits. Only the fittest will come, the percentage of immigrants that come purely for benefits is small anyway but every little helps I guess


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Reue
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(Original post by skunkboy)
Lol. Some immigrants can work harder than some lazy British people. Also those immigrants need less money. We can build some flats for immigrants so they can pay by installments. No problems about their places. Lol.
Some immigrants are also criminals and terrorists.. just as some british are.
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Reue
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(Original post by A level sufferer)
I'm an immigrant and I say we should make it harder for anyone (British or immigrant) to collect benefits. Only the fittest will come, the percentage of immigrants that come purely for benefits is small anyway but every little helps I guess
Are you one of the 'fittest' then?
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Copperknickers
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(Original post by Reue)
Some immigrants are also criminals and terrorists.. just as some british are.
The difference being we can choose whether criminal and terrorist immigrants come into the country or not. We shouldn't be letting anyone into this country with a criminal record or a history of extremism, and we should deport everyone who we are able to deport for such things. Then we can focus on our homegrown crime and extremism problems.
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Reue
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(Original post by Copperknickers)
The difference being we can choose whether criminal and terrorist immigrants come into the country or not. We shouldn't be letting anyone into this country with a criminal record or a history of extremism, and we should deport everyone who we are able to deport for such things. Then we can focus on our homegrown crime and extremism problems.
Sorry, that wasn't the point I was making.
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RF_PineMarten
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(Original post by aliendays)
In my opinion It's a myth that we don't have enough actual space, less than 7% of the land in the UK is actually built on. Other studies have found that 98% of the UK still remains 'natural' - though I'm not keen on the idea of building on green belt land, there is plenty of room for expansion if it's needed.

Cities like London have always been crowded with a high concentration of people, making it unsanitary and chocked full of pollution historically, you should move if you don't like it.

Funding things like the NHS could easily be done if governments prioritised tax avoidance of corporations. Cafe Nero alone have not paid corporation tax in the UK since 2008. Stricter regulations could create 100's of billions for the NHS to expand and improve public transport and other services.

Also the amount of people leaving the country will probably begin to substantially increase in the future with the economic development of China, India, Brazil and other Middle Eastern and Asian countries. People with degrees in this country will probably find better economic rewards elsewhere around the world where the skills are in higher demand.

I have never thought about a plan to control sustainable immigration, but these points seem like common sense to consider.
The "built on" and 98% "natural" figure is very misleading. It ignores the parts of urban areas that aren't built on, which is just stupid. The actual figure for the land area covered by urban areas is around 10% in England, and lower in Scotland and Wales.
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Andy98
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(Original post by RFowler)
That 7% "built on" and 98% "natural" figure is very misleading. It ignores the parts of urban areas that aren't built on, which is just stupid. The actual figure for the land area covered by urban areas is around 10% (lower in Scotland and Wales).
Plus 7+98>100....

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Rakas21
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(Original post by le_darkhorse)
Where did you hear that less than 7% of land here is built on? I can't believe that at all. Sounds completely false. Take London for example ... how much of that is built on? Large majority pal. Don't know where your stats are coming from.
You might want to drive from London to Nottingham or Manchester to Glasgow before asserting we lack green space,
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