What is so bad about jeremy corbyn?

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Graham 14
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#1
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#1
Jeremy Corbyn as you know is gaining a lot of traction for his talk about renationalisation, scrapping tution fees etc. For once, I've actually been enthused by a politician that speaks about the things I care about, who speaks his mind and doesn't dodge questions with scripted answers. However, within Labour it seems jeremy corbyn, would be a disaster, I can't understand why, the rest of the candidates are all tory lite and complete sell outs, it's like labour has completely forgotten who it represents, why is it so wrong for a politician to talk about the austerity myth, the growing gap between rich and poor, ever rising rents, young people ever owning their own home, the increase in child poverty, and providing welfare for the most vulnerable, can someone explain what is so wrong about his politics?
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Cadherin
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#2
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#2
(Original post by Graham 14)
Jeremy Corbyn as you know is gaining a lot of traction for his talk about renationalisation, scrapping tution fees etc. For once, I've actually been enthused by a politician that speaks about the things I care about, who speaks his mind and doesn't dodge questions with scripted answers. However, within Labour it seems jeremy corbyn, would be a disaster, I can't understand why, the rest of the candidates are all tory lite and complete sell outs, it's like labour has completely forgotten who it represents, why is it so wrong for a politician to talk about the austerity myth, the growing gap between rich and poor, ever rising rents, young people ever owning their own home, the increase in child poverty, and providing welfare for the most vulnerable, can someone explain what is so wrong about his politics?
Because he's actually left-wing and hence will make Labour unelectable. (When did the UK last elect a left-wing Government? 1974!)

I don't know which idiot would actually vote for such unfeasible, sanctimonious policies. Oh, and he's a knobhead.
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Graham 14
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#3
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(Original post by Cadherin)
Because he's actually left-wing and hence will make Labour unelectable. (When did the UK last elect a left-wing Government? 1974!)

I don't know which idiot would actually vote for such unfeasible, sanctimonious policies. Oh, and he's a knobhead.
I'm guessing your pro austerity then?
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footstool1924
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#4
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Shouldn't you vote on the basis of the policies themselves rather than where someone is on a political spectrum?

Yesterday's liberals are tomorrow's conservatives...
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TheDefiniteArticle
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#5
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Because people think him unelectable due to completely misunderstanding the 'race to the centre' experiment of game theory, which has as one of its central premises voters' opinions being evenly distributed (which is obviously not the case).
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Graham 14
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(Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
Because people think him unelectable due to completely misunderstanding the 'race to the centre' experiment of game theory, which has as one of its central premises voters' opinions being evenly distributed (which is obviously not the case).
There's a real labour fixation with being in the centre ground, I don't think it'll make them relevant anymore, if jeremy corbyn's supportters are to go by, people don't want austerity anymore.
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TheDefiniteArticle
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#7
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#7
(Original post by Graham 14)
There's a real labour fixation with being in the centre ground, I don't think it'll make them relevant anymore, if jeremy corbyn's supportters are to go by, people don't want austerity anymore.
Indeed. Many people (cough cough Kendall supporters cough cough) could learn a lot from reading Simon Wren-Lewis' blog.
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SotonianOne
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#8
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#8
  • Corbyn wants to give back Northern Ireland to Ireland
  • Corbyn wants to give Falklands to Argentina
  • Corbyn wants to give back Gibraltar to Spain
  • Corbyn supports Hamas as a serious political entity with legitimacy
  • Corbyn wants rent control (poor people lose their houses)
  • Corbyn wants rail nationalisation (worse railways for marginally lower ticket prices)
  • Corbyn refuses to confirm he is not a Marxist (he wants to take your money and give it all to Africans and compensate you by giving you a seat on the executive board of your workplace)
  • Corbyn wants to significantly decrease the UK military
  • Corbyn is anti-American, pro-Venezuelan
  • Corbyn wants all rich people to **** off with his higher-than-green-party top rate of tax at 75%
  • Corbyn believes ISIS is our creation


also Corbyn is anti-austerity
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Shqiptare
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#9
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#9
(Original post by SotonianOne)
  • Corbyn wants to give back Northern Ireland to Ireland
  • Corbyn wants to give Falklands to Argentina
  • Corbyn wants to give back Gibraltar to Spain
  • Corbyn supports Hamas as a serious political entity with legitimacy
  • Corbyn wants rent control (poor people lose their houses)
  • Corbyn wants rail nationalisation (worse railways for marginally lower ticket prices)
  • Corbyn refuses to confirm he is not a Marxist (he wants to take your money and give it all to Africans and compensate you by giving you a seat on the executive board of your workplace)
  • Corbyn wants to significantly decrease the UK military
  • Corbyn is anti-American, pro-Venezuelan
  • Corbyn wants all rich people to **** off with his higher-than-green-party top rate of tax at 75%
  • Corbyn believes ISIS is our creation

also Corbyn is anti-austerity

Pretty much all this. I'd just add:

- He supports homeopathy
- Corbyn is a Hamas sympathisor who addressed Hamas members as 'my friends'
- Over Kosovo war, Corbyn adopted an outright pro-Milosevic, atrocity denialist position.
- He supported the notorious anti-Semite Raed Salah, a man who
was found guilty of spreading the blood libel
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TheDefiniteArticle
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Shqiptare)
Pretty much all this. I'd just add:

- He supports homeopathy
- Corbyn is a Hamas sympathisor who addressed Hamas members as 'my friends'
- Over Kosovo war, Corbyn adopted an outright pro-Milosevic, atrocity denialist position.
- He supported the notorious anti-Semite Raed Salah, a man who
was found guilty of spreading the blood libel
I've seen these claims a few times but never seen a legit source for them (note there is a distinction between supporting homeopathy and supporting NHS funding for homeopathy; distinction between supporting Hamas and arguing that including them in civil peace discussions etc) - especially the latter two (and don't try and suggest that haaretz.com is a worthwhile source).
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Shqiptare
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#11
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#11
(Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
I've seen these claims a few times but never seen a legit source for them (note there is a distinction between supporting homeopathy and supporting NHS funding for homeopathy.
Jeremy Corbyn tweeted the following:

I believe that homeo-meds works for some ppl and that it compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

He also signed the following petition among several others:

That this House notes that herbal remedies have for centuries made a valuable contribution to healthcare; acknowledges that successive Ministers have hoped that the Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive would provide a safe future legal home for such products as older legislative provisions were withdrawn; is alarmed that only 35 applications for registration under the Directive have been received by the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, and only 14 registrations granted; fears that many smaller specialist manufacturers are deterred by the prohibitive costs and pharmaceutical testing regimes introduced by the legislation; warns that this risks the loss of thousands of safe and popular herbal remedies when the transitional period expires in 2011; and invites Ministers urgently to intervene to reduce the burdens of regulatory compliance and to persuade the European Union to review the legislation to prevent further damage to the herbal products sector.

(Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
distinction between supporting Hamas and arguing that including them in civil peace discussions
As I said before, he described Hamas as 'my friends' and denounced placing them on the terrorist list. Perhaps you can clear up any misunderstanding in Corbyn's quest to talk to all sides including those with whom one disagrees, by giving us an example of Corbyn inviting a group of Israeli right-wingers to Westminster and, in the same spirit, introducing them as "friends"?

(Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
especially the latter two (and don't try and suggest that haaretz.com is a worthwhile source).
Haaretz is a mainstream centre-left Israeli newspaper. I have no reason do doubt it. But if you want I can link you the entire Appeal's Chamber judgement into Salah's case. See in particular paragraph 57-59.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgmen...ision-mahajna/

On the second point, Corbyn signed this petition. The article in question was written by John Pilger, a virulent denier of the crimes of Slobodan Milosevic’s Serbian regime against the Kosovo Albanians. It is little more than a propaganda piece, making a large number of untrue claims and massively downplaying Milosevic's atrocities in Kosovo to around 1/5 of the actual death toll. It even cites former Canadian ambassador James Bissett - an unrepentant defender of Slobodan Milosevic and a denier of both the Srebrenica and Raçak massacres and founder of the extreme right-wing think tank ‘Lord Byron Foundation for Balkan Studies - as well as Milosevic supporter Neil Clark and paid Serbian lobbyist Lewis MacKenzie (although of course Pilger conceals these salient facts about these individuals from his readers).
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41b
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Shqiptare)
Jeremy Corbyn tweeted the following:

I believe that homeo-meds works for some ppl and that it compliments 'convential' meds. they both come from organic matter...

He also signed the following petition among several others:

That this House notes that herbal remedies have for centuries made a valuable contribution to healthcare; acknowledges that successive Ministers have hoped that the Traditional Herbal Medicinal Products Directive would provide a safe future legal home for such products as older legislative provisions were withdrawn; is alarmed that only 35 applications for registration under the Directive have been received by the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency, and only 14 registrations granted; fears that many smaller specialist manufacturers are deterred by the prohibitive costs and pharmaceutical testing regimes introduced by the legislation; warns that this risks the loss of thousands of safe and popular herbal remedies when the transitional period expires in 2011; and invites Ministers urgently to intervene to reduce the burdens of regulatory compliance and to persuade the European Union to review the legislation to prevent further damage to the herbal products sector.



As I said before, he described Hamas as 'my friends' and denounced placing them on the terrorist list. Perhaps you can clear up any misunderstanding in Corbyn's quest to talk to all sides including those with whom one disagrees, by giving us an example of Corbyn inviting a group of Israeli right-wingers to Westminster and, in the same spirit, introducing them as "friends"?



Haaretz is a mainstream centre-left Israeli newspaper. I have no reason do doubt it. But if you want I can link you the entire Appeal's Chamber judgement into Salah's case. See in particular paragraph 57-59.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgmen...ision-mahajna/

On the second point, Corbyn signed this petition. The article in question was written by John Pilger, a virulent denier of the crimes of Slobodan Milosevic’s Serbian regime against the Kosovo Albanians. It is little more than a propaganda piece, making a large number of untrue claims and massively downplaying Milosevic's atrocities in Kosovo to around 1/5 of the actual death toll. It even cites former Canadian ambassador James Bissett - an unrepentant defender of Slobodan Milosevic and a denier of both the Srebrenica and Raçak massacres and founder of the extreme right-wing think tank ‘Lord Byron Foundation for Balkan Studies - as well as Milosevic supporter Neil Clark and paid Serbian lobbyist Lewis MacKenzie (although of course Pilger conceals these salient facts about these individuals from his readers).
You're just flinging ad-hominem. Is that the best you can come up with?

What is wrong with homeopathy? Prince Charles supports it. Prince Charles is smarter and richer than you. Therefore you are wrong.

That is the kind of argument you are pushing. You haven't actually said anything about the issue of homeopathy, herbal medicine, health freedom, Hamas or Israel. You assume that anyone with intelligence is automatically in agreement with you and everyone who disagrees is a fool.

It's a sad testament to how intellectually debased this country has become that political arguments revolve around appeals to authority and ad-hominem. All those people who argued for an income-based franchise have been mostly vindicated, although considering how even the economy has again become a tool of patronage like in feudal times, rather than the measurement of objective success it partially was during the Victorian period, even something like an income-restricted franchise would be ineffective at keeping illogical people from intruding on policy discussions.
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illegaltobepoor
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#13
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#13
(Original post by Graham 14)
Jeremy Corbyn as you know is gaining a lot of traction for his talk about renationalisation, scrapping tution fees etc. For once, I've actually been enthused by a politician that speaks about the things I care about, who speaks his mind and doesn't dodge questions with scripted answers. However, within Labour it seems jeremy corbyn, would be a disaster, I can't understand why, the rest of the candidates are all tory lite and complete sell outs, it's like labour has completely forgotten who it represents, why is it so wrong for a politician to talk about the austerity myth, the growing gap between rich and poor, ever rising rents, young people ever owning their own home, the increase in child poverty, and providing welfare for the most vulnerable, can someone explain what is so wrong about his politics?
The reason why the dinosaurs are flapping like chickens is because Jeremy Corbyn listens to the working class and voices their concerns in Parliament. He is a proper MP and not one of the self serving liars we see everyday in the media.

He wants to put into motion economic changes which will favor people at the bottom rather than the top.

Lets talk about housing.

The Winners.
Low Paid Workers, The Local Economy and Local Government

Lets put it this way. If you give a worker a council house they will be paying less rent. There will be a huge sum left over from their income and this will be spent in their local economy because the working class spend 99% of their income.

There will be less need to pay excessive amounts of housing benefit. The housing benefit that does get paid will go to local councils and will be used for creating new council houses and maintaining the remaining council housing stock.

Money is like water. You consume it and then send it on its merry way after your body has used it. It gets used again and again and again.

The Losers.Private Landlords, Estate Agents, Investors and Home Owners.

If we build a huge amount of Council Housing the prices of similar homes in the local vicinity will not gain so much value as they did before. This will put a end to investors parking their money in British property and driving up prices.

The knock on effect will be that Private Landlords will not be able to increase their property rents excessively every year or two in relation to the slow down in house prices. Also the demand for private accommodation will be lower due to tenants switching to council housing and this will mean that private landlords will have to lower their rents to attract tenants.

The Buy to Let market may collapse and this will be bad news for property managers especially estate agents.

.....................................

Basically if Jeremy Corbyn got elected in 2020 as Prime Minister he would make sure Slumlords appear on channel 5 as the real benefit scroungers.

Some Tories are waking up to the fact that they've made a big mistake vouching for Jeremy. He has the potential to unite the whole left-wing and take back voters from UKIP.
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Cadherin
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#14
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#14
(Original post by Graham 14)
I'm guessing your pro austerity then?
Yes - because I don't believe in passing on £1.5 trillion of national debt and its interest to our children and other future generations.
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Cadherin
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#15
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#15
(Original post by illegaltobepoor)
The reason why the dinosaurs are flapping like chickens is because Jeremy Corbyn listens to the working class and voices their concerns in Parliament. He is a proper MP and not one of the self serving liars we see everyday in the media.

He wants to put into motion economic changes which will favor people at the bottom rather than the top.

Lets talk about housing.

The Winners.
Low Paid Workers, The Local Economy and Local Government

Lets put it this way. If you give a worker a council house they will be paying less rent. There will be a huge sum left over from their income and this will be spent in their local economy because the working class spend 99% of their income.

There will be less need to pay excessive amounts of housing benefit. The housing benefit that does get paid will go to local councils and will be used for creating new council houses and maintaining the remaining council housing stock.

Money is like water. You consume it and then send it on its merry way after your body has used it. It gets used again and again and again.

The Losers.Private Landlords, Estate Agents, Investors and Home Owners.

If we build a huge amount of Council Housing the prices of similar homes in the local vicinity will not gain so much value as they did before. This will put a end to investors parking their money in British property and driving up prices.

The knock on effect will be that Private Landlords will not be able to increase their property rents excessively every year or two in relation to the slow down in house prices. Also the demand for private accommodation will be lower due to tenants switching to council housing and this will mean that private landlords will have to lower their rents to attract tenants.

The Buy to Let market may collapse and this will be bad news for property managers especially estate agents.

.....................................

Basically if Jeremy Corbyn got elected in 2020 as Prime Minister he would make sure Slumlords appear on channel 5 as the real benefit scroungers.

Some Tories are waking up to the fact that they've made a big mistake vouching for Jeremy. He has the potential to unite the whole left-wing and take back voters from UKIP.
You're joking! UKIP voters will never turn to Labour with Corbyn. Let's not forget that UKIP is a right-wing/centre-right Party - the point of UKIP is to back almost the complete opposite policies to Corbyn's. The only part of the electorate that may turn to Labour is the SNP supporters and that's still not enough to do anything for them, as the swing to SNP this election was ridiculous and it would take a ridiculous swing the other way to reverse that.

I'm backing Corbyn because we can then look forward to another two Tory majorities.
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Thisguy11
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#16
He doesnt worship rich people and cooperations
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Thisguy11
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#17
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#17
(Original post by Cadherin)
Yes - because I don't believe in passing on £1.5 trillion of national debt and its interest to our children and other future generations.
So do you support the tax cuts that are being handed out when "we are all in this together"
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Rakas21
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Graham 14)
There's a real labour fixation with being in the centre ground, I don't think it'll make them relevant anymore, if jeremy corbyn's supportters are to go by, people don't want austerity anymore.
Austerity will be irrelevant at the next election given that the Tories should achieve surplus in 2019.

In addition, it seems likely that people have already made up their minds on austerity.
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Cadherin
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#19
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#19
(Original post by Thisguy11)
So do you support the tax cuts that are being handed out when "we are all in this together"
Yes, because low tax encourages corporate investment which in turn provides employment, increases tax revenue, and hence decreases spending on the welfare budget.
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Катя
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#20
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#20
(Original post by Graham 14)
Jeremy Corbyn as you know is gaining a lot of traction for his talk about renationalisation, scrapping tution fees etc. For once, I've actually been enthused by a politician that speaks about the things I care about, who speaks his mind and doesn't dodge questions with scripted answers. However, within Labour it seems jeremy corbyn, would be a disaster, I can't understand why, the rest of the candidates are all tory lite and complete sell outs, it's like labour has completely forgotten who it represents, why is it so wrong for a politician to talk about the austerity myth, the growing gap between rich and poor, ever rising rents, young people ever owning their own home, the increase in child poverty, and providing welfare for the most vulnerable, can someone explain what is so wrong about his politics?
Nothing is wrong, he's just bugging a lot of Tories because he is actually challenging their ideology and policy for once.... which is what Labour is supposed to be!

Labour since 2010 have been pathetic IMO. If Corbyn moves Labour back to the centre left (Labour at the moment are grossly right-wing, and the Tories even more so – I mean, hell, even Winston Churchill supported inheritance taxes as they prevented a class of the "idle rich".... and now the Tories are putting the tax-free threshold up to £1m), then the Lib Dems might become useful (by being actually centrist, not just yellow Tories), and Cameron/Osborne can carry on being right-wing extremists (which is what they are – privatising the Royal Mail was too much even for Thatcher, remember).

Variety is key.
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