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"If you're not a Feminist, you're against equality"

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While I'm all for women being soldiers and men being ballet dancers, the destruction of gender norms is one of the reasons I won't associate myself with the movement. I'm quite happy that women are feminine and men are masculine and I feel that feminists go too far with their goals of a genderless society.

I think Feminism oppresses masculinity causing a lot of men to become confused about their roles in society.

Feminism is also getting too involved in the school system which is becoming far too favoured for girls, hence why girls are doing so much better than boys.

Reply 21

Zander01

Yeah what a lot of feminists don't realise is that many people (male and female) embrace their gender norms and miost likely wouldn't want to see them disappear.

Reply 22

kate37

I suppose technically you are a feminist, even if you don't want to subscribe to that label due to the largely negative connotations of crazy females that are attached to it.

Feminism is just wanting equality for everyone (women, men, LBGT community, POC etc) and if your idea of feminism that you're thinking of when those girls asked you doesn't include that, then that's actually called 'white feminism'.

White feminism is when women (usually white!) believe and preach that feminism is only about the wage gap, dress codes and slut shaming. Obviously these are problems but these aren't the greatest problems of inequality today.

INTERSECTIONAL feminism is something you can probably more (unwillingly) relate to.
This is when you try to fight for the equality of everyone. This includes addressing problems such as inequality when fathers file for custody in a divorce case, LBGT rights, People of Colour's rights, Women of Colour's rights etc, as well as also addressing the wage gap, unnecessary dress codes, slut shaming and rape culture.

I don't know if this makes sense to you but I'm hoping that maybe it does, and you can see that you are actually (technically, whether you want to identify as it or not) an intersectional feminist.

But obviously when people hear feminist they run in to their houses and lock the doors and windows, so it's okay if you don't want to publicly identify as one.

Reply 23

kate37

Original post by Zander01

Yeah what a lot of feminists don't realise is that many people (male and female) embrace their gender norms and miost likely wouldn't want to see them disappear.

See what is portrayed in this is white feminism, which is basically just close minded white feminists who don't actually understand what they're talking about.

Intersectional feminists understand that liberation is being able to choose what you want to wear. They support sex workers (as I assume who is being showed? may be wrong) for being open with their sexuality and making a living, and they recognise that religious clothing that covers your body is NOT oppressive, unless you're being forced to wear it against your will. If you want to wear clothing such as that, then an intersectional feminist would understand and fully support it as they understand it's not oppressive and instead is liberating.

Does this make sense? Haha.

Reply 24

Birkenhead

Original post by kate37

I suppose technically you are a feminist, even if you don't want to subscribe to that label due to the largely negative connotations of crazy females that are attached to it...you are actually (technically, whether you want to identify as it or not) an intersectional feminist.

Feminism does not have a monopoly on the idea of gender equality, that's absolutely ludicrous. A movement is defined by its actions and behaviour as much as by what it claims to believe in (see Communism). If someone say they are not a feminist, then they are not a feminist, even if their beliefs closely match those of feminism, and it's a sign of insecurity in your position that you should feel the need to slap this label on people because they believe in some form of gender equality when they have made it clear that they do not identify with it.

Reply 25

kate37

Original post by Birkenhead

Feminism does not have a monopoly on the idea of gender equality, that's absolutely ludicrous. A movement is defined by its actions and behaviour as much as by what it claims to believe in (see Communism). If someone say they are not a feminist, then they are not a feminist, even if their beliefs closely match those of feminism, and it's a sign of insecurity in your position that you should feel the need to slap this label on people because they believe in some form of gender equality when they have made it clear that they do not identify with it.

Your point is irrelevant because I mentioned that they don't want to identify as a feminist and that it was fine. Lmao.
And also a sign of insecurity in my position? Please stop trying to be some sort of psychologist. Your reply has been completely and 100% irrelevant.

Reply 26

Birkenhead

Original post by kate37

Your point is irrelevant because I mentioned that they don't want to identify as a feminist and that it was fine. Lmao.

You told them that they were a feminist regardless of whether they wanted to be or not.

Reply 27

Thisguy11

If you are going to use dictionary definition to label someone a feminist, then lets use dictionary definitions of man and woman to tell transgender people what they are

Reply 28

kate37

Original post by Birkenhead

You told them that they were a feminist regardless of whether they wanted to be or not.

I said 'technically', because if they believe in gender equality then that is exactly feminist views?? But I also said that it's okay if they don't want to identify as one?

Obviously I forgot that if you're a feminist you HAVE to be part of the movement and go to rallies etc, not just share their views. Lmao bye

Reply 29

TimmonaPortella

Original post by VotreAltesse

Why is it that Feminists in general see it as bad that I'm not one?

Because a lot of the more angry ones are quite superficial thinkers, and thus more concerned about labels and identity politics than anything else.

Reply 30

ivybridge

Original post by Oli-Ol

I think he means (and do correct me if I'm wrong) that feminism does not have a monopoly on equality. It is perfectly possible to believe in equality and work towards equality without identifying with a movement that has done some horrendous things in its name, and without wanting to be associated with it.

He doesn't consider himself a feminist, so you shouldn't make him identify as one. It would be like calling everyone a Christian if they believed in God, ignoring the other theistic religions.

But I wasn't saying Feminism = Equality. I was saying that if you are in support of women's rights, you are a feminist. How hard is that to understand? That is exactly what the word means. Modern connotations have distorted it into something else and radical feminism has replaced the original definition.

I'm not making him identify as anything - I see him as what he is, which is a feminist because he is in support of women's rights which is the entire gist of that original movement. Further to that, it is not at all like calling everyone who believe's in God a Christian - you can believe in 'God' and be Muslim or Christian denominations and so on.

Reply 31

flamboy

feminists themselves aren't in favour of equality - they big-up themselves infinitely more than men. it's spineless and makes them look self-centred
"oh but women have far more issues than men" - couldn't be further from the truth.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 32

VotreAltesse

Original post by ivybridge

it is not at all like calling everyone who believe's in God a Christian - you can believe in 'God' and be Muslim or Christian denominations and so on.

Well I can be a supporter of women's rights AND an Egalitarian without being a Feminist then ... you're argument is flawed.

Reply 33

ivybridge

Original post by VotreAltesse

Well I can be a supporter of women's rights AND an Egalitarian without being a Feminist then ... you're argument is flawed.

Not nearly as flawed as your grammar. You are an Egalitarian, correct, however, you can't not be a feminist if you support women's rights - it doesn't mean you have to support every single thing feminism stands for.

Reply 34

username917703

Original post by Oli-Ol

Absolutely spot on.

Reply 35

VotreAltesse

Original post by ivybridge

Considering English is not my first language, I think I'm fine.

Let's agree to disagree because this is going round in circles and is frankly boring me.

Reply 36

ivybridge

Original post by VotreAltesse

Considering English is not my first language, I think I'm fine.

Let's agree to disagree because this is going round in circles and is frankly boring me.

Don't make a thread about it, opening up the debate then? You're quite clearly stuck in your ways about what you think so don't ask for debate if it is going to "bore" you :lol:

Reply 37

VotreAltesse

Original post by ivybridge

Don't make a thread about it, opening up the debate then? You're quite clearly stuck in your ways about what you think so don't ask for debate if it is going to "bore" you :lol: