I understand enough to know that there is no way of making it fair. What are they going to do, say, right, you've become a judge now, so give us another £10,000 please? Or, in the other case, OK, you're a teacher, so I guess you don't have to pay anything more.
Like hell. The same people will be the victims every time. Usually the people doing the most for the rest of us.
I only said nurse because I was giving examples of careers that are valuable and poorly-paid. I guess nurse was a bad thing to say because of NHS funding.
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Exeter students vote to support top-up fee! watch
- 06-06-2004 15:27
- 07-06-2004 21:51
The Government make all these promises, but they will sneak in changes, bit by bit, so students end up paying more and more. Why not just close some of the crap universities, cut some of the crap courses and refuse to indulge those that go to university just to get pissed? Or those that go to university because they'd feel left out if they didn't have a degree? It's all linked to this ridiculous idea of getting 50% of people to go to university, for the sake of it, so that Blair can say, "Look, we've got one of the best standards of education in the world. 50% of our 18 year olds now go to university." Everything becomes worth less than it used to. Degrees will become worth less and less because they'll be ten a penny, whereas people without degrees will be frowned upon and regarded as second rate. If fewer people go to university, and we're talking able students, not rich people, degrees will retain their value and the funding that already exists can go further towards helping those that will really use it.
What happens if people become teachers in shortage subjects to get rid of their debt and then go into industry 2 years later? Get a doctor's note to say their nerves can't stand teaching? It's not like anyone's going to get back to them and say, right, you're not a teacher anymore, so let's have your money. Theoretically, perhaps. But not in practice. These people are way too disorganised. My mum's a teacher, and she just found out that Hampshire County Council haven't got any record of her 7 years' continuous employment with them. The system is much too easy to abuse. Law abiding, conscientious, hardworking people will pay off their debts year by year and sacrifice other things, whilst the same people that manage to fiddle their taxes will find some way of getting their debts lifted. That's the way it works. The system is much too easy to abuse.
- Thread Starter
(Original post by Pencil Queen)
- 09-06-2004 09:31
In my experience the latter groups of people (the ones at uni to get drunk, have a laugh, do what their friends do and put off working for 3/4 years) are almost never the same as the former froup (the people at "crap" universities, doing "crap" courses). The majority of students at crap universities doing vocational courses are mature and/or poor students studying alongside working trying to improve their lot in life...if anything these are the people who deserve more money from the government not to have their courses and universities scrapped to make it cheaper for a few more 18 yr olds with half good A levels to bum around for three years.
There are NO crap universities - there are universities with very very different agendas to oxbridge and the russell group...different doesn't mean worse.
There are NO crap courses - someone who studies golf studies at Birmingham and goes on to get a good job in the golf industry is worth 10 times someone studying history at Liverpool only to finish their course and bum around not taking any job they consider "beneath them". A course is only worth as much as you take out from it - and the amount people take from a course has no relation to what people consider "good" or "crap" subjects.
I suggest you read http://www.dfes.gov.uk/hegateway/str...y/expand.shtml
The case for expansion is economic.
The expansion is SOLELY in foundation degree courses and therefore will have NO effect on the proportion of people with normal degrees - there is no money available for more students on standard courses - if uni's want more students they need to set up foundation degree courses and use them to bid for funding for extra student places.
If you read the link I posted the teachers in shortage subjects get their repayments paid for them WHILE THEY ARE TEACHING. If they leave teaching they become responsible for their own repayments again. As repayments are made through the inland revenue via PAYE it's pretty much impossible to avoid them unless you set up your own business and fiddle your pay/tax.
It's only as easy to abuse as it is to avoid paying your taxes...a very small minority of people get away with tax fraud (not nearly so many as most people think). The only feasable way to be sure you never repay your student loan is to keep your income below £15k for your entire life.
See latest news on top-up fees and the amendments voted upon by the House of Lords.
Includes no imposition of top-up fees on students wanting to take a gap year in 2005
Top-up fees on first three years only so that someone doing a 4 year course pay extra only for first three years
Top-up fees not to be used as a way of saving on state support to students