Do modern liberals defend absolutely anyone who is considered an 'underdog'?

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Lady Comstock
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Obese people.
Islamic conservatives.
Unscrupulous benefits claimants.
Illegal economic migrants.
(Non-exhaustive)

All of these I have seen modern liberals defend and not have one word said against them in criticism. I am not saying everyone included in the above should be hounded, but modern liberals will usually shout down any criticism levied against them. In contrast, you will often see modern liberals (especially media) go all out in criticising people considered 'privileged'.

Is it the case that modern liberals defend absolutely anyone who they consider an 'underdog', or more specifically: anyone who Western governments want to restrict or oppose?
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flamboy
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because they're contrarian utopians - they don't want any kind of disadvantage to exist for anybody, even if that disadvantage stems from those groups' deliberate and conscious personal choices, and their lust for "social justice" and equality just blasts away every kind of rational thought in some cases - take, for instance, the feminists who support both the burka *and* the slut walk - it's all about being contrarian to *something*, even if it's hypocritical. I could go on - how about the liberals who think gender and race shouldn't matter, yet they think that obama and/or hillary are/were totally qualified to be president based on those things. again, it's all about being both mainstream and against-the-grain at the same time; being in favour of minorities means that they're a part of the bohemian metropolitan left wing where they can fit in being in favour of anybody who's not in the majority to make them feel society's moral guardians, but it's also about being against the rich, the able, the social-foundation, the unpopular truths that have always (or usually) been recognised in some fashion (and I'm not at all talking about religion - I'm talking about facts like how war will never go away, and how human beings are disastrously flawed) so that they can, again, seem better or more moral than everybody else - they want to be popularly unpopular, and famously infamous - so uncool that it's cool, etc
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DanB1991
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Mehhhh..... sounds more like the left to me.

Liberals imo tend to be more balanced, "people have the right to be fat, but we should discourage that lifestyle".

Left for example would blame obesity on anyone but the obese. Right would only blame the obese people and not wider culture or issues caused by poor government policy or society.
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Moosferatu
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Mehhhh..... sounds more like the left to me.

Liberals imo tend to be more balanced, "people have the right to be fat, but we should discourage that lifestyle".

Left for example would blame obesity on anyone but the obese. Right would only blame the obese people and not wider culture or issues caused by poor government policy or society.
When painted like this it's almost like The Left is some comic book villain organisation instead of a vague political description describing everyone from mild social democrats to Reds jacked up on Trotsky wanting to overthrow the state.
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Rory :)
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Liberals are usually supposed to be in between the left and right. Although now days you find them on the centre left.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
When painted like this it's almost like The Left is some comic book villain organisation instead of a vague political description describing everyone from mild social democrats to Reds jacked up on Trotsky wanting to overthrow the state.
Or Bakunin
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Moosferatu
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Or Bakunin
Doesn't matter to them, it's all this nebulous threat that must be confronted.

Funniest thing is the past 30 years have been a golden age for right-wing politics with the entrenchment of neoliberalism (especially with the destruction of Real Labour in the mid-late '90s) and it showing no signs of slowing down despite failing miserably towards the end of the last decade.

Just why are some people are so paranoid about The Left™?

This is a side point anyway, getting quite far from Dan's post now...
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1338
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
Obese people.
Islamic conservatives.
Unscrupulous benefits claimants.
Illegal economic migrants.
(Non-exhaustive)

All of these I have seen modern liberals defend and not have one word said against them in criticism. I am not saying everyone included in the above should be hounded, but modern liberals will usually shout down any criticism levied against them. In contrast, you will often see modern liberals (especially media) go all out in criticising people considered 'privileged'.

Is it the case that modern liberals defend absolutely anyone who they consider an 'underdog', or more specifically: anyone who Western governments want to restrict or oppose?
How about ISIS, they're opposed by Western governments but go against pretty much everything that liberals believe in so I doubt you'll find any liberals defending them
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Lady Comstock
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(Original post by 1338)
How about ISIS, they're opposed by Western governments but go against pretty much everything that liberals believe in so I doubt you'll find any liberals defending them
You still sort of see it, especially in relation to those who go out there or those who profess support for ISIS - a lot of apologism.
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#Ridwan
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(Original post by 1338)
How about ISIS, they're opposed by Western governments but go against pretty much everything that liberals believe in so I doubt you'll find any liberals defending them

Simply not true - apologism for ISIS is rife among the left. The Guardian have published a number of articles stating that we have no right to claim any moral high ground over ISIS. Russell Brand has said something very similar.
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1338
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(Original post by Lady Comstock)
You still sort of see it, especially in relation to those who go out there or those who profess support for ISIS - a lot of apologism.
(Original post by #Ridwan)
Simply not true - apologism for ISIS is rife among the left. The Guardian have published a number of articles stating that we have no right to claim any moral high ground over ISIS. Russell Brand has said something very similar.
Oh right, I haven't seen anything like that, do you have any links to the articles?
I don't really see the sense in liberals doing that though considering ISIS enforce beliefs on people which are pretty much the opposite to what liberals should believe

Also aren't the Guardian and Russell brand more left wing than liberal, they did both supported Labour in the last general election.
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#Ridwan
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(Original post by 1338)
Oh right, I haven't seen anything like that, do you have any links to the articles?
I don't really see the sense in liberals doing that though considering ISIS enforce beliefs on people which are pretty much the opposite to what liberals should believe

Also aren't the Guardian and Russell brand more left wing than liberal, they did both supported Labour in the last general election.

See below. Genuinely staggering.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...o-is-grotesque
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jamestg
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Mehhhh..... sounds more like the left to me.

Liberals imo tend to be more balanced, "people have the right to be fat, but we should discourage that lifestyle".

Left for example would blame obesity on anyone but the obese. Right would only blame the obese people and not wider culture or issues caused by poor government policy or society.
This seems pretty much spot on to me.
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Moosferatu
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(Original post by #Ridwan)
See below. Genuinely staggering.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...o-is-grotesque
The Guardian doesn't speak for the entire left or even a large section of it.

I condemn ISIS and I judge what comes out of The Guardian on an article by article basis.

I condemn hipster third wave feminism faux-liberalism that comes out of that rag, for example.

Wonder how many Telegraph readers can say the same...
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LannaBanana
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I think you'll find most liberally minded people just defend an individual's rights to exist in peace as long as it doesn't damage wider society.

That is why they defend the rights of an obese person to live without any abuse that is directed at them just purely because of their obesity. They don't defend OBESITY in itself.

They defend the rights of ALL religions to exist, because to condemn one religion while praising the other makes no sense. They don't defend terrorism. There are 1 billion Muslims in the world, they're not all terrorists. There are extremists in every religion. Should we ban all religions? Even if we wanted to, it'd be impossible. It'd also be a very big step towards the sort of homogenisation you'd expect in a 1984-esque future.

They don't defend 'unscrupulous benefit claimants', they defend the welfare system in general. You might be talking about how people say "Well, who cares about the benefit thieves, when we have MPs who are stealing thousands of pounds from the taxpayer every year?" Which makes sense to me, because these are the people who are in control of your country, we expect them to be better. For every one person who cheats the system by getting a few quid a week extra there are hundreds, thousands of people who deserve/need every penny they claim.

Also, they don't hound people who are privileged, they criticise the society which allows for such a huge gap in wealth/opportunities. Some privileged people are aware of the gap and contribute to make society a fairer place (think Bill Gates.) Some privileged people live in their own sphere where they can't comprehend what it's like to not be wealthy (think Donald Trump).

You might very well know people who are exactly as you describe, but you can't say that how they behave is representative of every single liberal, just like you can't lump together all obese people, all religious people, all benefit claimants, all immigrants, all MPs, all those who are privileged. Individuality exists; when you forget that, that's when the witch hunts begin. When you start lumping everyone together and then add on a half-hearted "I'm not saying EVERYONE'S like that but..." it basically implies that actually you do think everyone's like that - at least enough to complain about it.

"I'm not saying everyone who claims benefits is a swindler but"
"I'm not saying all black people are criminals but"
"I'm not saying all women are sluts but"
"I'm not saying all students are lazy but"
I'm not racist but
I'm not sexist but
.
.
.
.
I tune out when I hear a sentence that begins with that.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
Doesn't matter to them, it's all this nebulous threat that must be confronted.

Funniest thing is the past 30 years have been a golden age for right-wing politics with the entrenchment of neoliberalism (especially with the destruction of Real Labour in the mid-late '90s) and it showing no signs of slowing down despite failing miserably towards the end of the last decade.

Just why are some people are so paranoid about The Left™?
They are irrational morons?
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jamestg
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
I condemn ISIS and I judge what comes out of The Guardian on an article by article basis.

Wonder how many Telegraph readers can say the same...
I can say the same haha, but to be fair the Telegraph is more liberal - more in line with the centre right of this Conservative government than the likes of the Daily Mail, Daily Mirror and even The Sun.

In fact I'd say people reading The Guardian or The Telegraph are fairly liberal people in general.
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DanB1991
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
When painted like this it's almost like The Left is some comic book villain organisation instead of a vague political description describing everyone from mild social democrats to Reds jacked up on Trotsky wanting to overthrow the state.
Well your are comparing the basic left and basic right at their root levels. You have to remember you have varying levels of left or right, but saying, well a moderate left viewpoint is XYZ is pretty pointless seeing a moderate left, right or center can have many differing viewpoints outside of the left, right and centrer dynamic. By comparison, the more solid left and right supporters tend to have far fewer exceptions in their dogma.

Even then by your logic surely the right would seem more of a comic book villain?
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DanB1991
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
Just why are some people are so paranoid about The Left™?
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
They are irrational morons?
To be honest I don't understand the paranoid hatred of the Right, aka they're all out to make the majority poor/slaves.

A lot of it become boarderline conspiracy theories. It's about time both politicians and voters matured past this whole left vs Center vs right which they obsess about. Clearly it's a middle ground that is in most peoples interest (note not center as such).

It's akin to how I despise opposition politics, the whole idea you have to oppose a parties idea's purely because A) You're the opposition and B) They are not your party. It's completely ridiculous how parties will change their tune simply because they're not the one enforcing the policy.
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Rakas21
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It's more a problem with the liberal-left (often social democrats or libertarian socialists) than liberals in general however your right OP, some of these people don't know what's good for them.
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