Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?
Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?
On one end of the spectrum, we have the seemingly robotic Chinese, then on the other, the nonchalant British. Very blunt, but this is what this BBC article/show is showing me. [Is there some sort of nationalist agenda here? I'm quite suspicious about this show, but I digress.]
I've personally experienced both types of education - each has their strengths and flaws. Yet it seems to push simplistic and erroneous assumptions; how do you compare a camel and a horse?
Take my points with a grain of salt, obviously there are nuances with each education systems.
-British students are typically quite lax with regards to education
-Teenagers can easily access education, so they are inclined to take it for granted
-There is no respect for people of authority
-British schools foster creativity and intellectual thinkers (memorising a formula, text or exam questions and answers is not an effective way of preparing for the real world and its problems)
-British universities are the best in the world
-Chinese kids being forced to face the competitive nature of life at a young age will prepare them
-The Chinese are ahead of the British in terms of Maths, Science
-Poverty in China makes students endeavour to succeed in school; if they don't fare well, they're going to work in factories (no government help through benefits and allowances)
-They are forced to accept supreme authority and are unwilling to question and criticise [due to their government, most likely]
-Long days (~12hrs of school) are a detriment to a child's development
-There is a huge difference in memory and understanding
-Students in China are taught like robots
-Teachers though seemingly strict, are concerned with their student's welfare
-With such a large population and country, it is quite difficult to fund education systems that have smaller classes, with the ability to work hands-on
It is a show, and obviously it is exaggerating some details for entertainment, but it is definitely a thought provoker.
In the end, I believe that a combination of Chinese discipline and British education can create a promising individual. Both education systems can definitely learn from each other.
Thoughts?
On one end of the spectrum, we have the seemingly robotic Chinese, then on the other, the nonchalant British. Very blunt, but this is what this BBC article/show is showing me. [Is there some sort of nationalist agenda here? I'm quite suspicious about this show, but I digress.]
I've personally experienced both types of education - each has their strengths and flaws. Yet it seems to push simplistic and erroneous assumptions; how do you compare a camel and a horse?
Take my points with a grain of salt, obviously there are nuances with each education systems.
-British students are typically quite lax with regards to education
-Teenagers can easily access education, so they are inclined to take it for granted
-There is no respect for people of authority
-British schools foster creativity and intellectual thinkers (memorising a formula, text or exam questions and answers is not an effective way of preparing for the real world and its problems)
-British universities are the best in the world
-Chinese kids being forced to face the competitive nature of life at a young age will prepare them
-The Chinese are ahead of the British in terms of Maths, Science
-Poverty in China makes students endeavour to succeed in school; if they don't fare well, they're going to work in factories (no government help through benefits and allowances)
-They are forced to accept supreme authority and are unwilling to question and criticise [due to their government, most likely]
-Long days (~12hrs of school) are a detriment to a child's development
-There is a huge difference in memory and understanding
-Students in China are taught like robots
-Teachers though seemingly strict, are concerned with their student's welfare
-With such a large population and country, it is quite difficult to fund education systems that have smaller classes, with the ability to work hands-on
It is a show, and obviously it is exaggerating some details for entertainment, but it is definitely a thought provoker.
In the end, I believe that a combination of Chinese discipline and British education can create a promising individual. Both education systems can definitely learn from each other.
Thoughts?
well the premise of the programme is a bit silly - looks like they've set up a load of chinese teachers who've never had to deal with british levels of classroom disruption while the head teacher swans around looking smug.
but for what it's worth a recently reported trial of 'singapore maths' in british schools accelerated learning by an average one month per calender year (with an estimated impact on pupils earnings after leaving school of £200/year http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/singaporestyle-teaching-helps-solve-problem-of-maths-failure-says-new-research-10327085.html
but for what it's worth a recently reported trial of 'singapore maths' in british schools accelerated learning by an average one month per calender year (with an estimated impact on pupils earnings after leaving school of £200/year http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/singaporestyle-teaching-helps-solve-problem-of-maths-failure-says-new-research-10327085.html
Original post by acven
Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?
On one end of the spectrum, we have the seemingly robotic Chinese, then on the other, the nonchalant British. Very blunt, but this is what this BBC article/show is showing me. [Is there some sort of nationalist agenda here? I'm quite suspicious about this show, but I digress.]
I've personally experienced both types of education - each has their strengths and flaws. Yet it seems to push simplistic and erroneous assumptions; how do you compare a camel and a horse?
Take my points with a grain of salt, obviously there are nuances with each education systems.
-British students are typically quite lax with regards to education
-Teenagers can easily access education, so they are inclined to take it for granted
-There is no respect for people of authority
-British schools foster creativity and intellectual thinkers (memorising a formula, text or exam questions and answers is not an effective way of preparing for the real world and its problems)
-British universities are the best in the world
-Chinese kids being forced to face the competitive nature of life at a young age will prepare them
-The Chinese are ahead of the British in terms of Maths, Science
-Poverty in China makes students endeavour to succeed in school; if they don't fare well, they're going to work in factories (no government help through benefits and allowances)
-They are forced to accept supreme authority and are unwilling to question and criticise [due to their government, most likely]
-Long days (~12hrs of school) are a detriment to a child's development
-There is a huge difference in memory and understanding
-Students in China are taught like robots
-Teachers though seemingly strict, are concerned with their student's welfare
-With such a large population and country, it is quite difficult to fund education systems that have smaller classes, with the ability to work hands-on
It is a show, and obviously it is exaggerating some details for entertainment, but it is definitely a thought provoker.
In the end, I believe that a combination of Chinese discipline and British education can create a promising individual. Both education systems can definitely learn from each other.
Thoughts?
On one end of the spectrum, we have the seemingly robotic Chinese, then on the other, the nonchalant British. Very blunt, but this is what this BBC article/show is showing me. [Is there some sort of nationalist agenda here? I'm quite suspicious about this show, but I digress.]
I've personally experienced both types of education - each has their strengths and flaws. Yet it seems to push simplistic and erroneous assumptions; how do you compare a camel and a horse?
Take my points with a grain of salt, obviously there are nuances with each education systems.
-British students are typically quite lax with regards to education
-Teenagers can easily access education, so they are inclined to take it for granted
-There is no respect for people of authority
-British schools foster creativity and intellectual thinkers (memorising a formula, text or exam questions and answers is not an effective way of preparing for the real world and its problems)
-British universities are the best in the world
-Chinese kids being forced to face the competitive nature of life at a young age will prepare them
-The Chinese are ahead of the British in terms of Maths, Science
-Poverty in China makes students endeavour to succeed in school; if they don't fare well, they're going to work in factories (no government help through benefits and allowances)
-They are forced to accept supreme authority and are unwilling to question and criticise [due to their government, most likely]
-Long days (~12hrs of school) are a detriment to a child's development
-There is a huge difference in memory and understanding
-Students in China are taught like robots
-Teachers though seemingly strict, are concerned with their student's welfare
-With such a large population and country, it is quite difficult to fund education systems that have smaller classes, with the ability to work hands-on
It is a show, and obviously it is exaggerating some details for entertainment, but it is definitely a thought provoker.
In the end, I believe that a combination of Chinese discipline and British education can create a promising individual. Both education systems can definitely learn from each other.
Thoughts?
Both systems can definitely learn from one another. Neither is perfect.
Having a country of drones incapable of independent thought would be terrible; but so is a country of selfish scroungers. Creativity is important in a country's economic development, in all sectors. At some point, the Chinese economy will slow down significantly, and it's lack of creativity will be a factor.
Tbh, their obscenely large population and previous emphasis of making cheap tat in factories is the main drive of their success, it won't last in the long term once China reaches the UK's high standard of living.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Well, IMO the show has already demonstrated that it wouldn't work, purely because English children are not disciplined enough.
I didn't see any "creativity" in those children btw, just selfishness.
However, the issue of discipline aside, I still think Chinese-style education in the form that is portrayed would NOT be good. 12 hours is way too long, children need to have time to be bored. I would run for 4-hour days, with knowledge-based education and very strict discipline so that nobody's time is wasted, but afternoons off so children can do something creative if they want.
I also just don't think it is necessary to be "three years ahead" in Maths. Don't get me wrong, it's very impressive (although kind of expected if you teach maths for 11 hours a week instead of 4 hours per week), but it's pretty much just for showing off. I don't think school-aged pupils need more than A-Level Maths, which they can do in regular school time. If you want to give children extra brain training, I'd rather add variety, maybe a foreign language or a musical instrument or some form of engineering.
I didn't see any "creativity" in those children btw, just selfishness.
However, the issue of discipline aside, I still think Chinese-style education in the form that is portrayed would NOT be good. 12 hours is way too long, children need to have time to be bored. I would run for 4-hour days, with knowledge-based education and very strict discipline so that nobody's time is wasted, but afternoons off so children can do something creative if they want.
I also just don't think it is necessary to be "three years ahead" in Maths. Don't get me wrong, it's very impressive (although kind of expected if you teach maths for 11 hours a week instead of 4 hours per week), but it's pretty much just for showing off. I don't think school-aged pupils need more than A-Level Maths, which they can do in regular school time. If you want to give children extra brain training, I'd rather add variety, maybe a foreign language or a musical instrument or some form of engineering.
(edited 8 years ago)
I think the real major difference is that attitude that each society takes towards education. A fairly significant portion of British society feels that education is not that important, what I would characterize as the 'I failed school and I turned out fine' attitude. Obviously children pick up on this and so they care less about their own education, which leads to disruption in the classroom and disengagement with the education system in general. In the Chinese system, almost everyone in society feels that education is extremely important and that the way you improve yourself is through education. It's this attitude that allows the 12 hour school days and the extreme discipline to work, because they believe that it is the way to make yourself a better person, and the kids pick this up from their parents.
If we were to bring this attitude to the UK as a whole, our education system would improve almost immediately. You don't need to extend hours to improve education when you can instead have the existing hours be significantly more focused. I will qualify my next statement with a "this is what I remember reading a while back but no longer have the source", but if my memory is correct then an ofsted report found that teachers were on average wasting more than 30 minutes a day just keeping discipline in the classroom. That's pretty ridiculous.
In terms of methods of teaching, I think the Chinese system has it's limits. To learn something, you first must know the thing, then you have to understand it, and finally you have to be able to apply it. The Chinese system is the most effective for imparting basic knowledge that simply requires you to remember/know something (e.g. dates of historical events, names and places, mathematical formula), but it is inferior when it comes to teaching understanding. The English system is better at teaching understanding, but often fails because the base knowledge is not there to apply the understanding to. As with most things, this means that a mix of techniques will likely be the most beneficial overall method.
If we were to bring this attitude to the UK as a whole, our education system would improve almost immediately. You don't need to extend hours to improve education when you can instead have the existing hours be significantly more focused. I will qualify my next statement with a "this is what I remember reading a while back but no longer have the source", but if my memory is correct then an ofsted report found that teachers were on average wasting more than 30 minutes a day just keeping discipline in the classroom. That's pretty ridiculous.
In terms of methods of teaching, I think the Chinese system has it's limits. To learn something, you first must know the thing, then you have to understand it, and finally you have to be able to apply it. The Chinese system is the most effective for imparting basic knowledge that simply requires you to remember/know something (e.g. dates of historical events, names and places, mathematical formula), but it is inferior when it comes to teaching understanding. The English system is better at teaching understanding, but often fails because the base knowledge is not there to apply the understanding to. As with most things, this means that a mix of techniques will likely be the most beneficial overall method.
Original post by acven
Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?
On one end of the spectrum, we have the seemingly robotic Chinese, then on the other, the nonchalant British. Very blunt, but this is what this BBC article/show is showing me. [Is there some sort of nationalist agenda here? I'm quite suspicious about this show, but I digress.]
I've personally experienced both types of education - each has their strengths and flaws. Yet it seems to push simplistic and erroneous assumptions; how do you compare a camel and a horse?
Take my points with a grain of salt, obviously there are nuances with each education systems.
-British students are typically quite lax with regards to education
-Teenagers can easily access education, so they are inclined to take it for granted
-There is no respect for people of authority
-British schools foster creativity and intellectual thinkers (memorising a formula, text or exam questions and answers is not an effective way of preparing for the real world and its problems)
-British universities are the best in the world
-Chinese kids being forced to face the competitive nature of life at a young age will prepare them
-The Chinese are ahead of the British in terms of Maths, Science
-Poverty in China makes students endeavour to succeed in school; if they don't fare well, they're going to work in factories (no government help through benefits and allowances)
-They are forced to accept supreme authority and are unwilling to question and criticise [due to their government, most likely]
-Long days (~12hrs of school) are a detriment to a child's development
-There is a huge difference in memory and understanding
-Students in China are taught like robots
-Teachers though seemingly strict, are concerned with their student's welfare
-With such a large population and country, it is quite difficult to fund education systems that have smaller classes, with the ability to work hands-on
It is a show, and obviously it is exaggerating some details for entertainment, but it is definitely a thought provoker.
In the end, I believe that a combination of Chinese discipline and British education can create a promising individual. Both education systems can definitely learn from each other.
Thoughts?
On one end of the spectrum, we have the seemingly robotic Chinese, then on the other, the nonchalant British. Very blunt, but this is what this BBC article/show is showing me. [Is there some sort of nationalist agenda here? I'm quite suspicious about this show, but I digress.]
I've personally experienced both types of education - each has their strengths and flaws. Yet it seems to push simplistic and erroneous assumptions; how do you compare a camel and a horse?
Take my points with a grain of salt, obviously there are nuances with each education systems.
-British students are typically quite lax with regards to education
-Teenagers can easily access education, so they are inclined to take it for granted
-There is no respect for people of authority
-British schools foster creativity and intellectual thinkers (memorising a formula, text or exam questions and answers is not an effective way of preparing for the real world and its problems)
-British universities are the best in the world
-Chinese kids being forced to face the competitive nature of life at a young age will prepare them
-The Chinese are ahead of the British in terms of Maths, Science
-Poverty in China makes students endeavour to succeed in school; if they don't fare well, they're going to work in factories (no government help through benefits and allowances)
-They are forced to accept supreme authority and are unwilling to question and criticise [due to their government, most likely]
-Long days (~12hrs of school) are a detriment to a child's development
-There is a huge difference in memory and understanding
-Students in China are taught like robots
-Teachers though seemingly strict, are concerned with their student's welfare
-With such a large population and country, it is quite difficult to fund education systems that have smaller classes, with the ability to work hands-on
It is a show, and obviously it is exaggerating some details for entertainment, but it is definitely a thought provoker.
In the end, I believe that a combination of Chinese discipline and British education can create a promising individual. Both education systems can definitely learn from each other.
Thoughts?
There is a reason why British educated Chinese kids do well as well because they get the discipline from their parents and the education from their class.
With things like this often the middle ground is the answer.
Original post by acven
Would Chinese-style education work on British kids?
On one end of the spectrum, we have the seemingly robotic Chinese, then on the other, the nonchalant British. Very blunt, but this is what this BBC article/show is showing me. [Is there some sort of nationalist agenda here? I'm quite suspicious about this show, but I digress.]
I've personally experienced both types of education - each has their strengths and flaws. Yet it seems to push simplistic and erroneous assumptions; how do you compare a camel and a horse?
Take my points with a grain of salt, obviously there are nuances with each education systems.
-British students are typically quite lax with regards to education
-Teenagers can easily access education, so they are inclined to take it for granted
-There is no respect for people of authority
-British schools foster creativity and intellectual thinkers (memorising a formula, text or exam questions and answers is not an effective way of preparing for the real world and its problems)
-British universities are the best in the world
-Chinese kids being forced to face the competitive nature of life at a young age will prepare them
-The Chinese are ahead of the British in terms of Maths, Science
-Poverty in China makes students endeavour to succeed in school; if they don't fare well, they're going to work in factories (no government help through benefits and allowances)
-They are forced to accept supreme authority and are unwilling to question and criticise [due to their government, most likely]
-Long days (~12hrs of school) are a detriment to a child's development
-There is a huge difference in memory and understanding
-Students in China are taught like robots
-Teachers though seemingly strict, are concerned with their student's welfare
-With such a large population and country, it is quite difficult to fund education systems that have smaller classes, with the ability to work hands-on
It is a show, and obviously it is exaggerating some details for entertainment, but it is definitely a thought provoker.
In the end, I believe that a combination of Chinese discipline and British education can create a promising individual. Both education systems can definitely learn from each other.
Thoughts?
On one end of the spectrum, we have the seemingly robotic Chinese, then on the other, the nonchalant British. Very blunt, but this is what this BBC article/show is showing me. [Is there some sort of nationalist agenda here? I'm quite suspicious about this show, but I digress.]
I've personally experienced both types of education - each has their strengths and flaws. Yet it seems to push simplistic and erroneous assumptions; how do you compare a camel and a horse?
Take my points with a grain of salt, obviously there are nuances with each education systems.
-British students are typically quite lax with regards to education
-Teenagers can easily access education, so they are inclined to take it for granted
-There is no respect for people of authority
-British schools foster creativity and intellectual thinkers (memorising a formula, text or exam questions and answers is not an effective way of preparing for the real world and its problems)
-British universities are the best in the world
-Chinese kids being forced to face the competitive nature of life at a young age will prepare them
-The Chinese are ahead of the British in terms of Maths, Science
-Poverty in China makes students endeavour to succeed in school; if they don't fare well, they're going to work in factories (no government help through benefits and allowances)
-They are forced to accept supreme authority and are unwilling to question and criticise [due to their government, most likely]
-Long days (~12hrs of school) are a detriment to a child's development
-There is a huge difference in memory and understanding
-Students in China are taught like robots
-Teachers though seemingly strict, are concerned with their student's welfare
-With such a large population and country, it is quite difficult to fund education systems that have smaller classes, with the ability to work hands-on
It is a show, and obviously it is exaggerating some details for entertainment, but it is definitely a thought provoker.
In the end, I believe that a combination of Chinese discipline and British education can create a promising individual. Both education systems can definitely learn from each other.
Thoughts?
People often forget that Chinese education works the way it does because it is surrounded with Chinese culture. You can't just take the education out of the culture and expect it to work. As others have mentioned, attitude towards education is a cultural thing and possibly a big factor in Chinese academic attainment.
If you want Chinese education, get the kids adopted by Chinese parents and send them young to China. Then bring them back and test them. Of course, it ain't gonna happen.
No, but a taser would.
I've never seen a generation of people so incredibly fortunate to be born when they are be so unrelentingly blasé, narcissistic and entitled. We've killed every notion of competition in schools and the only behavioural standard which is permissible is a feminine standard of behaviour. Behaving like a boy? That's pathological - competition, that upsets people. We can't upset people.
We're even at the stage where a number of studies have been produced indicating teachers are consciously marking boys down despite them providing work of the same standard as girls. We're also now veering into the territory where girls are 60% of all Uni applications and 80% of all primary school teachers. This forced distribution itself creates a whole host of problems, notably women don't marry down in social class - they only marry up.
The schooling system has become all about collaboration, coursework and emotional intelligence, rather than competition, hard skills and exams - it's utterly feminised and there's no space for masculinity (it probably has something to do with males being absolutely terrified to even approach children, never mind teach them).
Too much of the curriculum is based around emotional intelligence, and other wooly crap which is not objectively measurable. Then again, heh ho, this is what we voted for, this is what we wanted: identity politics underpinned by the religion of feelings. The worst crime imaginable is making a child feel upset - hell, that may result in them actually accumulating a valuable life lesson.
I think there's also a much wider problem in that millions of children are being indoctrinated to believe there's only one possible path to take after school - straight into higher education. Get yourself that degree in gender studies, or theology, or philosophy, and then do what it trains you to do: the Asda graduate management programme. There's your 4 year black hole and unproductive economy.
A-Levels would more than suffice for the vast majority of graduate roles advertised today, but from the employers perspective, why take A-Levels when you can reach for graduates instead? It's not like we're short of them.
From my experience, I often find that a lot of University lessons, particularly all of the groupthink, have to be unlearned before even thinking about broaching real life.
On the bright side, at least the cotton wool industry has witnessed a massive increase in demand.
I've never seen a generation of people so incredibly fortunate to be born when they are be so unrelentingly blasé, narcissistic and entitled. We've killed every notion of competition in schools and the only behavioural standard which is permissible is a feminine standard of behaviour. Behaving like a boy? That's pathological - competition, that upsets people. We can't upset people.
We're even at the stage where a number of studies have been produced indicating teachers are consciously marking boys down despite them providing work of the same standard as girls. We're also now veering into the territory where girls are 60% of all Uni applications and 80% of all primary school teachers. This forced distribution itself creates a whole host of problems, notably women don't marry down in social class - they only marry up.
The schooling system has become all about collaboration, coursework and emotional intelligence, rather than competition, hard skills and exams - it's utterly feminised and there's no space for masculinity (it probably has something to do with males being absolutely terrified to even approach children, never mind teach them).
Too much of the curriculum is based around emotional intelligence, and other wooly crap which is not objectively measurable. Then again, heh ho, this is what we voted for, this is what we wanted: identity politics underpinned by the religion of feelings. The worst crime imaginable is making a child feel upset - hell, that may result in them actually accumulating a valuable life lesson.
I think there's also a much wider problem in that millions of children are being indoctrinated to believe there's only one possible path to take after school - straight into higher education. Get yourself that degree in gender studies, or theology, or philosophy, and then do what it trains you to do: the Asda graduate management programme. There's your 4 year black hole and unproductive economy.
A-Levels would more than suffice for the vast majority of graduate roles advertised today, but from the employers perspective, why take A-Levels when you can reach for graduates instead? It's not like we're short of them.
From my experience, I often find that a lot of University lessons, particularly all of the groupthink, have to be unlearned before even thinking about broaching real life.
On the bright side, at least the cotton wool industry has witnessed a massive increase in demand.
(edited 8 years ago)
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