QTS or PGCE? Watch

zoeybevan
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Hello

I am extremely confused right now lol and I'm hoping someone will be able to help me!

I have two conditional offers for university. One is for 'Early Years and Education' in which I'd have to take a PGCE at the end of, and the other is 'Primary Studies with QTS'.

I was just wondering if someone could explain the main difference and what is the best route to go down?

To get into the QTS course (which is my firm placement) I need a B in GCSE maths (I currently only have a C) and I resat that this year in the hope to get a B. But if the worst happened (touch wood it won't lol) I don't know whether to take a gap year and try to get a B again and apply for the QTS for 2016, or to do the early years course and the PGCE

Hopefully someone out there can help me and give me some advice as I'm so confused and I really don't know what to do
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physio_sparkly
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(Original post by zoeybevan)
Hello

I am extremely confused right now lol and I'm hoping someone will be able to help me!

I have two conditional offers for university. One is for 'Early Years and Education' in which I'd have to take a PGCE at the end of, and the other is 'Primary Studies with QTS'.

I was just wondering if someone could explain the main difference and what is the best route to go down?

To get into the QTS course (which is my firm placement) I need a B in GCSE maths (I currently only have a C) and I resat that this year in the hope to get a B. But if the worst happened (touch wood it won't lol) I don't know whether to take a gap year and try to get a B again and apply for the QTS for 2016, or to do the early years course and the PGCE

Hopefully someone out there can help me and give me some advice as I'm so confused and I really don't know what to do
The first is a degree that is about primary teaching/learning, but doesn't qualify you to teach, the second is a degree in primary teaching that qualifies you to teach. If you do the first you would need to do a one year PGCE afterwards. People can do a huge ranges of degrees and then go on to complete a PGCE e.g subject related like music, english, biology etc

The difference, I guess, is the number of years you will be paying tuition fees for....

The point of a PGCE is really that a person has a degree and then decides they would like to teach and does a 'teaching qualification'. Sometimes people have teaching in mind, but don't want to put all 'their eggs in the same basket' at that time - you can essentially make up your mind later on.

Taking a year out is risky due to the idea you might not get the grades (again) - harsh maybe. The University also doesn't need to give you an offer again for next year (especially if you have managed to not achieve the required grades already on a resit). Therefore, you could resit but then end up without an offer and be in the same situation again doing the 4 year option.
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zoeybevan
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(Original post by physio_sparkly)
The first is a degree that is about primary teaching/learning, but doesn't qualify you to teach, the second is a degree in primary teaching that qualifies you to teach. If you do the first you would need to do a one year PGCE afterwards. People can do a huge ranges of degrees and then go on to complete a PGCE e.g subject related like music, english, biology etc

The difference, I guess, is the number of years you will be paying tuition fees for....

The point of a PGCE is really that a person has a degree and then decides they would like to teach and does a 'teaching qualification'. Sometimes people have teaching in mind, but don't want to put all 'their eggs in the same basket' at that time - you can essentially make up your mind later on.

Taking a year out is risky due to the idea you might not get the grades (again) - harsh maybe. The University also doesn't need to give you an offer again for next year (especially if you have managed to not achieve the required grades already on a resit). Therefore, you could resit but then end up without an offer and be in the same situation again doing the 4 year option.
Not harsh at all I completely understand, that is a risk but there are plenty of other steps I can take to try and ensure to get a B again as I won't have sixth form to worry about during the day time I guess.

Obviously the QTS is my main choice, but if I did the Primary PGCE instead would that go against me trying to get jobs to be a primary school teacher etc? Do they prefer people to have QTS instead of a PGCE if possible?
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TraineeLynsey
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(Original post by zoeybevan)
Obviously the QTS is my main choice, but if I did the Primary PGCE instead would that go against me trying to get jobs to be a primary school teacher etc? Do they prefer people to have QTS instead of a PGCE if possible?
You work towards QTS during your PGCE. It's the QTS that qualifies you to teach in a UK state school. The PGCE is just an academic qualification. As far as I know, school recruiters have absolutely no preference for those who qualified on an undergrad with QTS route compared with those who qualified and got their QTS through one of the many post grad routes (PGCE, SCITT, Teach First, School Direct etc). Those who did the undergrad route I suppose might have clocked up more hours in schools and probably learn a bit more theory than some of the post grad routes. Post grads will likely have more maturity and life experience to bring to the role (many who qualify this way do it as a second career, myself included).
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Pierson
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I think you're getting a little confused between what a PGCE is and what QTS is. QTS means qualified teacher status, which is an award given by the Department of Education to those who have successfully completed a teacher training programme and proved that they meet all their Teachers' Standards.

There are lots of different teacher training programmes that lead to QTS. Some are undergraduate degrees, like the Primary Studies with QTS course you have an offer for, while others are postgraduate degrees (i.e. degrees for people who have already completed an undergraduate degree) like the PGCE. Their purpose are essentially the same: to train people to become effective teachers and give them the opportunity to gain QTS.If you were to do the Early Years and Education course, you would need to complete further training, like the PGCE, to gain QTS because the course does not offer you the opportunity to gain it. However, if you were to do the Primary Studies with QTS course, you would not need to do any further training. The difference is therefore ultimately one additional year of training (and therefore an additional year of fees etc).

How you achieved QTS doesn't have much impact on your employment prospects, so while obviously meeting the conditions of the Primary Studies with QTS course would be the ideal outcome for you, doing the Early Years and Education course and then the PGCE would be the second best option because taking a gap year and reapplying wouldn't achieve anything. It would merely delay your entry into teaching by a year in the same way doing the Early Years and Education course and a PGCE would.
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zoeybevan
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(Original post by Pierson)
I think you're getting a little confused between what a PGCE is and what QTS is. QTS means qualified teacher status, which is an award given by the Department of Education to those who have successfully completed a teacher training programme and proved that they meet all their Teachers' Standards.

There are lots of different teacher training programmes that lead to QTS. Some are undergraduate degrees, like the Primary Studies with QTS course you have an offer for, while others are postgraduate degrees (i.e. degrees for people who have already completed an undergraduate degree) like the PGCE. Their purpose are essentially the same: to train people to become effective teachers and give them the opportunity to gain QTS.If you were to do the Early Years and Education course, you would need to complete further training, like the PGCE, to gain QTS because the course does not offer you the opportunity to gain it. However, if you were to do the Primary Studies with QTS course, you would not need to do any further training. The difference is therefore ultimately one additional year of training (and therefore an additional year of fees etc).

How you achieved QTS doesn't have much impact on your employment prospects, so while obviously meeting the conditions of the Primary Studies with QTS course would be the ideal outcome for you, doing the Early Years and Education course and then the PGCE would be the second best option because taking a gap year and reapplying wouldn't achieve anything. It would merely delay your entry into teaching by a year in the same way doing the Early Years and Education course and a PGCE would.
Thanks!! This was extremely helpful, I haven't looked down the route of the PGCE as I'm hoping to get into the QTS course instead as that way would only take 3 year instead of 4.

I just quickly looked into the cost of doing a PGCE near me and it says it's £9000!!! That's how much the 3 year courses are so overall (government pays some towards it) but that'd be £18000 if I'm definitely reading that correctly.

I'd still need a B to get into doing the PGCE course, and knowing my luck in 4 years time the entry requirements would of gone up again and then I'd be in the same predicament I was in this year.
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physio_sparkly
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(Original post by zoeybevan)
Thanks!! This was extremely helpful, I haven't looked down the route of the PGCE as I'm hoping to get into the QTS course instead as that way would only take 3 year instead of 4.

I just quickly looked into the cost of doing a PGCE near me and it says it's £9000!!! That's how much the 3 year courses are so overall (government pays some towards it) but that'd be £18000 if I'm definitely reading that correctly.

I'd still need a B to get into doing the PGCE course, and knowing my luck in 4 years time the entry requirements would of gone up again and then I'd be in the same predicament I was in this year.
If you did the degree followed by the PGCE you could apply to different providers who would have different entry qualifications ie they might not all say you require the B. Students are taken onto teaching courses with a whole host of different qualfiications. It is just much more difficult at age 18 because you are heavily relying on academic qualifications in the main (ie you haven't really had the opportunities to develop skills with other relevant experience). Once you have other experiences, the C may become less of an issue.
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Pierson
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(Original post by zoeybevan)
Thanks!! This was extremely helpful, I haven't looked down the route of the PGCE as I'm hoping to get into the QTS course instead as that way would only take 3 year instead of 4.

I just quickly looked into the cost of doing a PGCE near me and it says it's £9000!!! That's how much the 3 year courses are so overall (government pays some towards it) but that'd be £18000 if I'm definitely reading that correctly.

I'd still need a B to get into doing the PGCE course, and knowing my luck in 4 years time the entry requirements would of gone up again and then I'd be in the same predicament I was in this year.
It's not very common for a PGCE course to require a B at GCSE. For as long as I can remember, most courses, including those at universities like Cambridge, have required at least a C because that is the minimum pass grade. For PGCEs, GCSE results aren't particularly important as long as you have passed GCSE Maths and English Language because all the people who apply will have completed their GCSEs at least five years ago and so it is possible that those who achieved A*s at GCSE might have forgotten most of what they learnt and therefore actually have less subject knowledge than those who only managed to get Cs. These results simply don't reflect current ability and knowledge and that is partly why they make candidates take the Professional Skills Tests.

The GCSE requirements are really only there to ensure that you had the subject knowledge and ability to pass GCSE Maths and English, so I think it's unlikely the minimum entry requirements will be raised for PGCEs (but, of course, there is always a small possibility because the government can be over-reactive and therefore difficult to predict).

What could change over the next few years are the fees for PGCE courses: the top performing universities (supposedly about 24 of them) will be allowed to increase their fees in line with inflation from 2017 and I wouldn't be surprised if the other universities are permitted an increase at some point too. They have also scrapped the maintenance grant from next year so many students starting university in 2016 will be up to £3,387 worse off. Obviously money isn't the most important consideration when it comes decisions like this but it is worth bearing in mind that you could be taking a financial hit that is greater than having to pay for a PGCE if you took a gap year and started the Primary Studies with QTS course next year.
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zoeybevan
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(Original post by Pierson)
It's not very common for a PGCE course to require a B at GCSE. For as long as I can remember, most courses, including those at universities like Cambridge, have required at least a C because that is the minimum pass grade. For PGCEs, GCSE results aren't particularly important as long as you have passed GCSE Maths and English Language because all the people who apply will have completed their GCSEs at least five years ago and so it is possible that those who achieved A*s at GCSE might have forgotten most of what they learnt and therefore actually have less subject knowledge than those who only managed to get Cs. These results simply don't reflect current ability and knowledge and that is partly why they make candidates take the Professional Skills Tests.

The GCSE requirements are really only there to ensure that you had the subject knowledge and ability to pass GCSE Maths and English, so I think it's unlikely the minimum entry requirements will be raised for PGCEs (but, of course, there is always a small possibility because the government can be over-reactive and therefore difficult to predict).

What could change over the next few years are the fees for PGCE courses: the top performing universities (supposedly about 24 of them) will be allowed to increase their fees in line with inflation from 2017 and I wouldn't be surprised if the other universities are permitted an increase at some point too. They have also scrapped the maintenance grant from next year so many students starting university in 2016 will be up to £3,387 worse off. Obviously money isn't the most important consideration when it comes decisions like this but it is worth bearing in mind that you could be taking a financial hit that is greater than having to pay for a PGCE if you took a gap year and started the Primary Studies with QTS course next year.
It might just be in Wales but even to do the PGCE course here it's required you have a B in maths as an entry requirement, as well as the QTS. Luckily I must of gotten a B as I got accepted into the QTS course
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