Why is 'Feminism' not called 'Gender Egalitarianism'? Watch

Azurite
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I'm a Gender Egalitarian. I support Gender Egalitarianism.
If you want equality of Men and Women, I don't understand why you don't call yourself a Gender Egalitarian rather than a Feminist.

( 'Egalitarian' comes from the French word 'égalité' meaning 'Equality'. )

If we're going to preach our opinions to the world, we might as well have a label that will convey our opinions more clearly... if people called themselves Gender Egalitarians rather than feminists, it would most certainly have less of a negative reception. I understand the negative reception towards 'Feminism' and 'Feminist', because by the English Language, it means the complete opposite of Gender Equality.
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gohohome
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Google is your best friend.

Here's a snippet from an article I like:

"So why “feminism”? Why not “equalism,”“egalitarianism ” or another name with a similar connotation? Feminism is amovement centered on advocating gender equality. Not only does feminism seek toelevate the status of women in society, it seeks to bring justice to people whohave been discriminated against in terms of their race, physical and mentalability, sexual orientation, and much more. Seeing that females have sufferedfrom oppression in our patriarchal society, I think it’s okay that one movementis more associated with the oppressed gender, especially considering how it’sone of the only things we have to ourselves. Had males historically sufferedthe same amount of discrimination at the hands and will of women or from amatriarchy, perhaps the name meninism would be acceptable. However, males,especially white, straight males, have not suffered at the hands of sexism tothe degree females have.Feminism seeks to balance the scales, so to use fem in theism, is to give females the boost we have been deserving of all this time, buthave been consistently denied. Feminism doesn’t just seek to discover equalitybetween all genders, it seeks to give back women everything they were denied;this is why it’s called feminism.Many people have trouble accepting the name “feminism”because they are afraid that if they support a movement primarily lead bywomen, they will be targeted as enemies of the patriarchy, or the social norm.But, contrary to popular belief, feminism does actually benefit men as well, asit does all genders. Feminism is centered on equality, not to create amatriarchy. The purpose of the movement should be more important than thegrammatical side to the name. Feminism originally was primarily focused aroundadvancing the status of women in society, giving it its name centered onfemales."
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TheCitizenAct
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Because feminism is bigoted and retains an own group bias. Women are 4x more likely to favour their own group (other women) than men are. In fact, men are more likely to show a bias in favour of other women than they are men. Right off the bat, you've got an unfair situation and a testimony to the prevailing nature of modern feminism.

Feminists hate black and white morality. They hate gender only clubs, unless they are women-only clubs. They hate unequal distributions, if that distribution favours men. They hate racism, but only against non-white people. They hate rape, but there's deathly silence in this country about situations like more males being raped in the USA last year than women, or Chris Grayling refusing to investigate the extent of rape and sexual violence in British prisons. This feminist, and many supported her, believes male rape victims still have more privilege than women. http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6098

They hate domestic violence, but only against women (men are 40% of victims of DV yet only have 60 refuges relative to 7,000 for women). They hate 'micro aggressions' (their word) like Matt Taylor wearing the wrong type of garment, but they've got nothing to say about Sharon Osbourne laughing hysterically on live TV about a woman who copped her husband's penis off with a kitchen knife. They hate 'sex while drunk', but only when the male is the perpetrator.

The only conversation feminism EVER has is in the context 'male perpetrator/female victim.' Anything else isn't worth acknowledging or, what's worse, they perceive it to be a direct challenge to their position aloft mount moral superiority.

It's a constant battle for moral superiority, much like modern progressivism. The morality is never applied in a black and white, or to the individual rather than the group ('women', but rather the narrative is cherry-picked, accentuated, sensationalised and then treated like gospel. For this reason, feminism will never be anything other than what it is - advocacy for preferential treatment for one group in society.
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gohohome
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(Original post by TheCitizenAct)
They hate racism, but only against non-white people.
wait... what? don't tell me you believe in reverse racism... ok i'm outtie, was nice being in this thread for all of 5 mins. bye.
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Azurite
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(Original post by gohohome)
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Google is our friend, sadly, you misused your friend, as what you have snipped is completely irrelevant to my question. 'Gender Egalitarianism' is the correct version of 'Feminism', by the English Language.
Try again to be pretentious.
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TheCitizenAct
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(Original post by gohohome)
wait... what? don't tell me you believe in reverse racism... ok i'm outtie, was nice being in this thread for all of 5 mins. bye.
See. One rule for one group, another rule for everyone else = progressivism.

Racism:

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Feminists believe in 'white privilege', or at least a lot of them do. It's the precise definition of racism.

It's why they make posts in the Independent like 'white men should never hold elected position in British Universities again.'

All I want is equality. All anyone else wants is to be able to set a different standard of morality for different groups in society. Want to move forward? TREAT EVERYONE EQUALLY!
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Wellzi
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(Original post by gohohome)
wait... what? don't tell me you believe in reverse racism... ok i'm outtie, was nice being in this thread for all of 5 mins. bye.
So because I'm white, you can discriminate against me? You racist.
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Azurite
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(Original post by gohohome)
wait... what? don't tell me you believe in reverse racism... ok i'm outtie, was nice being in this thread for all of 5 mins. bye.
That's racist.
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The Assassin
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Note, I don't hold this view myself, but this is generally the view of feminism.

egalitarianism implies meeting in the middle, whereas feminism implies elevating women up to the same status as men. Men are already at the optimum level of rights/respect/freedom so they don't need egalitarianism, because that implies making men and women equal, but could mean they are equal on a less optimum level of rights/freedom/respect. For example, both men and women get catcalled and annoyed on the streets. Equal, but ****ty. Feminism means bringing women up to the level of men, without lowering mens status. So that means both men and women DON'T get catcalled and annoyed on the streets. Equal and nice.

When you are referring to a term for a social movement and saying they should choose between those two terms, then the difference in implications (and not just the dictionary definition) of the two terms is important.

Bare bones, yes, egalitarianism is about total equality and does not address any specific level that the two groups should be equal at. But with feminism, the goal is to elevate women to the same level as men. It is all about changing women. Feminism is not about men. But egalitarianism is about both groups. Since one of the core ideas in feminism is "change", this idea of change ought to be applied to egalitarianism as well, if it were to fit the feminism half of ideas.

By saying "not feminism - egalitarianism" you are imply that men need a change as well, because you are eliminating the gender specificity in relation to the goals of the movement.

It's an issue with isolating the definitions. Basically, feminism equals change + equality, while egalitarianism only equals equality. For the term egalitarian to be applicable to the feminism movement, you need to add the change factor. But men don't need change to the extent that women do, so the term feminism is more fitting.
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Skyarex
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(Original post by gohohome)
wait... what? don't tell me you believe in reverse racism... ok i'm outtie, was nice being in this thread for all of 5 mins. bye.
Jesus, there are people who really don't think racism can happen to white people?

I am black by the way, if it makes things any different. It shouldn't, but I know it will for people like you.
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Azurite
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(Original post by The Assassin)
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Wait - since when can't egalitarianism mean equality + change?
Obviously something has to change to make something equal, so it automatically means change.. :s
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TheCitizenAct
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(Original post by The Assassin)
But men don't need change to the extent that women do, so the term feminism is more fitting.
Men are 3.5x more likely to commit suicide.

Men are 40% of all University applications.

Men are 20% of all primary school teachers and 36% of all medical students.

Men are 66% of all homicide victims.

Men are 40% of all victims of domestic violence (according to the Home Office), yet have 60 refuges relative to 7,000 for women.

Men are more than 90% of all workplace deaths.

Men work all of the worst professions in society - sewers, power line installation, building, plastering, road working, refuse collectors, etc. Where's the positive action to get women into these industries? There isn't any.

Men are twice as likely to be the victim of a violent crime.

It's impossible for a woman to rape a man in the UK.

Men are the majority of rape victims in the USA, according to the Dept. of Justice.

Men are 6x more likely to be homeless.

Would you like more?
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Azurite
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(Original post by TheCitizenAct)
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Exactly this.
I would love to see more facts so I can use them.
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Xotol
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Historically feminism has a lot more clout than egalitarianism. There's no question that most of civilised human history was based on a patriarchy in which males dominated the sociopolitical sphere, so there was clearly a need to have an organised movement to advance the social position of women first, ultimately leading to universal female suffrage in the early twentieth century. Even after that (in the 1960s/70s) many women thought there was a strong need to liberate women further because strict gender roles (women as homemakers, men as breadwinners) was still firmly enmeshed in society. And since then there's been the introduction of third wave feminism, which moves beyond that. It's common sense that you can achieve more with a focused objective, uniting a group of people to a common goal (i.e. liberating women).

It's important to keep in mind that feminism still encompasses a wide variety of ideas and beliefs. Traditionally, you have liberal feminists, social feminists, radical feminists, who all adopt different standpoints on what's wrong with society and how far we should go in 'liberating women'. Within that, you have the important distinction between equality and difference feminists. Equality feminists want to blur gender differences and focus on gender equality. Difference feminists don't - they encourage gender differences, and espouse that it's a natural consequence of inherent biological and cultural factors. This does not seem to be as reconcilable with egalitarianism which is far more aligned with the views of liberal feminists.

The issue I see with egalitarianism is that it is too broad to be useful politically. The idea is great and I'm sure most people agree with that, but can it focus enough people to tackle all of the important issues that are present in society? It seems to me that it will invariably split into smaller groups that will tackle different issues ultimately for the same goal.
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The Assassin
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(Original post by TheCitizenAct)
Men are 3.5x more likely to commit suicide.

Men are 40% of all University applications.

Men are 20% of all primary school teachers and 36% of all medical students.

Men are 66% of all homicide victims.

Men are 40% of all victims of domestic violence (according to the Home Office), yet have 60 refuges relative to 7,000 for women.

Men are more than 90% of all workplace deaths.

Men work all of the worst professions in society - sewers, power line installation, building, plastering, road working, refuse collectors, etc. Where's the positive action? There isn't any.

Men are twice as likely to be the victim of a violent crime.

It's impossible for a woman to rape a man in the UK.

Men are the majority of rape victims in the USA, according to the Dept. of Justice.

Men are 6x more likely to be homeless.

Would you like more?
this is all pointless because i stated right at the start that i didn't hold the view myself
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Skyy9432
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Just guna throw in my 2 Cents. Apologies in advance if I throw the wrong noun around about anything, I hope my point still makes sense despite the ****storm that that can cause. Also, I'm not hugely active on the forums, so apologies to any response if it's my only post.


Egalitarianism is the war, feminism is one of many war zones. Feminism is the war zone for gender, just like racism is a war zone for race. Basically, you can't succeed in egalitarianism without conquering feminist issues while doing it.

Now, I don't particularly like the fact we still use the term feminism, but it's a noun. I don't like the word "ketchup" either, but whatever, it's tasty. It's the label the movement goes by. As long as it's doing good things then let it be. I think the problem that causes questions such as "Why is 'Feminism' not called 'Gender Egalitarianism'?" (not picking you out in particular, Azurite. The question was just easiest to quote) can be seen by some of the responses they get. The idea of elevating women to men's level. In many, MANY ways, this is a great thing, as men do have various privileges. However, it often implies that being a man is a free pass to a sexism-free life. This is the bit that causes enough insult to create resistance instead of unity. Try to stand against this idea and you're all too often met with the cop out of "misogynist defending the patriarchy". Fighting the battles of male privilege is wonderful, yet fighting the battles of female privilege is met with a very unwelcome response. Don't get me wrong, I use feminist and feminazi for this exact reason. A true feminist recognises these things as an injustice against someone for their gender and will fight against it. A feminazi will tell the man his plight is irrelevant because women have it worse in other areas.

This, in my eyes, is why there's so much conflict between people who fundamentally want the same thing. Equality. It's just going to take us accepting the fact that both men and women have their respective privileges in different areas, and eliminating these privileges regardless of who has them.
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Rubgish
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Feminism is historically a movement by women and for women, and has been very successful in bringing the legal rights of women up to those of men. It's worth noting that legally speaking it has been the case of improving womens rights with no impact on mens rights. That is to say, it was only dealing with problems that impacted women, as the law was already in place for men and it was merely bringing it up to that level for women. In that context, it makes sense for the movement to be called feminism because it was lead by women, for women & only impacted women.

However, we are now at the stage where feminism has achieved legal equality, and is aiming to change social rules, that is to say non legally bound behaviour, biases, gender expectations etc. It's at this stage that the issues feminism deals with are impacting both men and women, as people of any gender are impacted by the expectations of society and the behaviour of those around them. Because of this, suddenly men are directly impacted by the change feminism tries to introduce, and that leads to the questioning of the term 'feminism' vs 'gender egalitarianism'. If you were to reset the movement at the current day, ignoring the history, then it should certainly be called something other than feminism, because it would be talking about reforming society for the good of everyone involved. As it is, it's not brand new, it's an extension of a pre-existing cause, and that label is likely to stick.

It may be that a rebranding would be appropriate, but that's very unlikely given the fractured nature of the general feminist movement.
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The_Mighty_Bush
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It should be called cuckoldry.
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