Abortion

when do you believe sperm + egg becomes an unborn child?

Don't you see that when you have an abortion you impose your morality on the unborn child?

Even if I didn't agree with abortion at all (I agree with it in some circumstances but that's irrelevant to this point) I'd much rather it stayed legal

If it's illegal people will try and get backstreet abortions which aren't done with the proper cleanliness and hygiene in mind as well as other things and aren't very safe and so people die

I don't agree with abortion whatsoever, I reckon it should be done in certain places and limit the abortion clinics.

At conception.

Has anyone read Freakonomics?

It's very interesting that higher abortion rates lead to lower crime rates.

Should we legalise rape and murder in that case, to make it safe?

Crime is rife, prison are full, this was not a problem prior to the legalisation of abortion.

that actually makes sense... doesn't seem unlikely that children who aren't wanted by their parents (or whose parents can't deal with the burden of a child) would turn to crime

I am pro-abortion. sounds a bit heartless, but I personally think that people place too much value on the life of an unborn child... I think the lives of those who mean something to other people and whose death would have a major impact on the lives of others are far more important than the life of an unborn child whose parents don't even want it or would be better off without it

1. shouldn't this be in have your say?

2. <flamebait> this forum is seems to dominated by intelligent agnostics/atheists so your not likely to find many people against abortion. </flamebait>

3. my opinion:: abortion is clearly a good thing, why on earth would anyone want a baby to be born when its not wanted?

Unborn child is an oxymoron. It can be either a foetus, unborn by definition, or a child, conversely, born by definition.

it's interesting that some people who insist that you shouldn't impose your 'morality' (or lack of) on the foetus, becuase it doesn't have a voice, or whatever, are the same people who will drag their children off to church from age 0, and warn them of the 'sins' they are committing if their child ever engages in pre-maritual sex, or homosexuality, completely removing any chance their children may have to infact form their own ideas of 'morality'.

which point of conception - it's a pretty complex process with no real start or end point?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_fertilisation

When:
The sperm passes through the corona radiata, the outermost cell layer of the egg,
or when:
The sperm breaks through the zona pellucida.
or when:
The cell membranes of the egg and sperm fuse together.
or when:
The female egg, also called a secondary oocyte at this stage, completes its second meiotic division. This results in a mature ovum.
or when:
The sperm's tail and mitochondria degenerate with the formation of the male pronucleus. This is why all mitochondria in humans are of maternal origin.
or when:
The male and female pronuclei fuse to form a new nucleus that is a combination of the genetic material from both the sperm and egg.

Or maybe when the new nucleus cell starts to divide?

what an odd leap of logic?

A more sensible one would have been to ask whether we should legalise drugs to reduce the harm caused (to society and to individuals) at the moment by their illegality.

But you think it is OK to put the unborn at the obvious risk of abortion, and to impose your morals upon them too?

Your profile states that you are in Ireland where abortion hasn't been legalised.

Is Ireland crime free?

when used as some form of after-contraception, surely most people would be against abortion? Unless we slipped into the twilight zone and I missed it.