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Abortion

Reply 380

7

XenaGlamRocker

The fact that any tom dick or harry can write on it though means that you can never truly be sure if whether you're reading is reliable or not.

You can be reasonably sure when it accords almsot exactly with what your doctor tells you about contraception.

Reply 381

Melancholy

20

XenaGlamRocker

The fact that any tom dick or harry can write on it though means that you can never truly be sure if whether you're reading is reliable or not.

Usually the pages are very well written. The wikipedia community effectively spot spam and disorganised work so that the content remains professional. Often the pages are written by experienced people, especially the ones which seem unlikely to be rewritten 'just for a laugh'. I wouldn't hesitate too much in quoting wikipedia for brief facts. It is more reliable than most. In fact the historical articles contain more detail than any textbook I have at home and most, extremely unreliable sites, that are found on the internet.

Reply 382

PinkMobilePhone

Chat Forum Helper, Life & Style Forum Helper

22

Sejanus

Yes, but why did you say "everyone knows it" if it was just your opinion? You were trying to present it as a well known fact, not an opinion. And your estimate was quite far from reality.

Okay, I got the figure wrong, I knew it was a small figure, and 5% is quite small, so I estimated.
The "everybody knows" still stands though in that everybody knows that no contraceptive is 100% effective.

Reply 383

Melancholy

20

Sejanus

Wikipedia is considered to be unreliable because people can edit it, but a recent study showed that for most science articles it was almost as accurate as the Encyclopedia Britannica. It seems that for verifiable things, it tends towards the accurate. That's why for quick reference on this type of topic it is usually as good as any other general source on the internet. Where it falls down is its focus, rather than its content.

I heard about that actually; the survey I mean.

Reply 384

Sejanus

7

XenaGlamRocker

Okay, I got the figure wrong, I knew it was a small figure, and 5% is quite small, so I estimated.
The "everybody knows" still stands though in that everybody knows that no contraceptive is 100% effective.

Sorry, don't mean to have a go, but in statistical terms 0.5% and 5% are really quite different. That's what caught my eye.
I do agree that everyone should bear in mind that no contraceptive is 100%, but I also think everyone should be well informed as to the realities of failure rates, so as to make a truly informed decision.

Reply 385

PinkMobilePhone

Chat Forum Helper, Life & Style Forum Helper

22

Sejanus

Sorry, don't mean to have a go, but in statistical terms 0.5% and 5% are really quite different. That's what caught my eye.
I do agree that everyone should bear in mind that no contraceptive is 100%, but I also think everyone should be well informed as to the realities of failure rates, so as to make a truly informed decision.

I admit the risks are small, thank goodness, but there still are risks.

In russian roulette, the odds of surviving are greater than the odds of shooting yourself, but I still wouldn't like to try it!

Reply 386

ForumFreak

9

XenaGlamRocker

I know you think I am a total nut due to me talking about tubes being tied.
That's okay, you can think I am if you like. I honestly think that, doctor acceptance permitting, it's a logical way of making sure you don't get pregnant if you are certain that you never want children.
In the liklihood that you change your mind (which is pretty unlikely if you hate kids, are a selfish person, and are serious that you never ever want them) you can always get it reversed.

And yes, I know reversing doesn't ALWAYS work, but in that case just to be extra extra sure, you can freeze a few eggs beforehand.

It would save babies from being conceived and then being killed, which cannot be a bad thing.

Anyway enough of that, if doctors wont do it, they wont do it, I can't force them to.

I thought pro lifers were against using IVF because of the spare embryos being destroyed.

Reply 387

Tufts

17

lizard queen

For those who believe that using abortion as contraception is wrong but if an accident happens it's ok, why?

People who use abortion for contraception reasons needs serious professional help. Fetus aside. Abortion is a very serious procedure healthwise for the woman. Any woman who believes she should endure such a risk to her health everytime she has sex needs to be sectioned. Only a very small minority of women use abortion in this way. However pro-lifers like to blow that minute minority out of proportion to show the 'selfishness' of women who have abortions. Most women who have abortions DO NOT see it as a form of contraception. Therefore arguing the legality and morality of abortion on those grounds is void.

Reply 388

Melancholy

20

Or, at least, void to the majority.

Reply 389

brokenangel

16

MissHero

Abortion is a positive thing. If you don't agree with it and find yourself in a situation where it is a possibility, don't do it. This is a case where nobody should be allowed to impose their morality on another.

:dito: every woman should have a choice if she has a kid but I do think the time limit should be lowered ( when it for non medical reasons) to the point that the baby would have no chance outside of the mother womb.

Lucia.

It's very interesting that higher abortion rates lead to lower crime rates. :smile:

Yeah as the people more likely to make mistakes are those that are more likely to be involved in crime and seen as if the kids weren’t aborted they would be raised by these parent and would then turn to crime by aborting them you lower the crime rate. Also if a family has too many kids they are more likely to steal thing they cant afford so by having a large number of these kids aborted you lower the crime rate.

Reply 390

Tufts

17

The_Myth Leader

Or, at least, void to the majority.

Using that as a reason to make abortion illegal to all is absurd

Reply 391

dynamism

7

I think abortion for any reason is great. I hate threads that go on for so many pages though because I don't know if my opinion has already been stated a few times.

Reply 392

Tufts

17

tickular

I think abortion for any reason is great.

Can you ellaborate on that? I wouldnt say it was 'great'. It's a serious and risky medical procedure. But neccessary - yes.

Reply 393

mr_person

1

I am personally against abortion, particularly the nonchalant attitude many people seem to have towards it these days. I think the 'pro-choice' argument is weak and is basically riding along the increased liberalism in developed countries. Yes it is nice to not be governed by archaic conservative restrictions on how we behave, but with abortion there is a helpless life at stake. By all means protest against laws that prevent you from having fun and having the right to risk your well-being in the name of pleasure, but ensure that it is only your life that is at risk. Few people would argue that people should be allowed to drink as much alcohol as they would like on a night out, but I don't think even the zaniest liberal agenda says its fair to *make* another individual drink themself half to death.

The major issue with abortion is whether or not an unborn baby is a human life. I believe this diversion of opinion is a myth. I think everyone truly understands that a baby is just as much a person as you or I, but that because believing it isn't is a socially acceptable opinion many people are basking in moral apathy and socialising only with people who have these conveniently fallacious views.
Its easy to feel this way, because you never see the victims of this crime. If you never saw murder reports on tv, and your parents were ambiguous about it when you were growing up you may well feel similarly about this supposedly cardinal sin. Ultimately, as the matrix teaches the masses, ignorance is bliss. Its easy to behave selfishly in a way which is ethically unsound if you never had to face the consequences.

In almost every cirumstance, abortion is unjustified. Condom split? Well, thats unfortunate but you knew pregnancy could occur from sex. The 'I didn't plan for it, and im not *ready* for it' school of thought is ridiculous. Unplanned things happen, you just have to take them in your stride. Imagine if I were married and my wife, a few years into our marriage, put on weight resulting in me finding her unattractive. I don't think I could kill her based on the argument that I didn't plan for her to be a lardy bitch. I could divorce her, yes, but kill? Noone would agree that is fair. Similarly, an unplanned for child should really be embraced, or at the very least handed over for adoption, but it should certainly not be killed!

I personally feel that sex education should be far more of a priority than it really is. That would help to cut down the number of people who are honestly ignorant of the consequences of sex. What would I do, if I had a one night stand with someone which resulted in an 'unwanted' pregnancy with someone I didn't much care for (not really on the cards...), I may well have an abortion. Noone will ever really challenge me on it and I personally have a utilitarian outlook on morality. I might think behaving in such a way is wholly wrong, but i'm not going to ask for punishment. Do you think, given the choice, murderers would choose to spend their lives in jail?

PS: Not sure if that was a bit long for this section. I was under the impression that serious discussions were to be kept in D&D, but i've looked in their and it seems most people just 'argue' to boost their ego and give themselves a sense of oratorical superiority whilst being uninterested in the actual issues at hand.

Reply 394

Tufts

17

mr_person

particularly the nonchalant attitude many people seem to have towards it these days.

What attitude is that?

Reply 395

ForumFreak

9

Your spouse putting on weight is not going to dramatically change your life though is it?

Having a baby will change every aspect of your life.

Reply 396

Tufts

17

ForumFreak

Your spouse putting on weight is not going to dramatically change your life though is it?

Having a baby will change every aspect of your life.

I was just about to say that. :wink:

But before he trots out the "give it up for adoption" line. 9 months of pregnancy is livechanging in itself. Especially when it is forced upon you.

Reply 397

bronsonbear

1

Tufts

Most women who have abortions DO NOT see it as a form of contraception. Therefore arguing the legality and morality of abortion on those grounds is void.

contraception = way of stopping yourself having an unwanted kid.
abortion = way of stopping yourself having an unwanted kid
ergo
abortion = form of contraception/2nd chance contraception

Reply 398

mr_person

1

Tufts

What attitude is that?

I think the phrase actually explains itself. The idea that you can be pretty chilled out about the whole issue because abortions is a nice 'cure-all'

But before he trots out the "give it up for adoption" line. 9 months of pregnancy is livechanging in itself. Especially when it is forced upon you.

Well it wasn't forced upon you. You chose to have sex. You knew the potential consequences of it. If you were raped, thats a more difficult scenario, but in the majority of cases you can't possibly say it was forced upon you.

Your spouse putting on weight is not going to dramatically change your life though is it?

I think it would. If I could no longer get attracted to someone i'd been with for years, and we consequentially got divorced I feel that would indeed be quite life-changing.

Reply 399

ForumFreak

9

Not as life changing as having a baby though.

Abortion

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