Abortion

20

ForumFreak

Why should a woman whose contraception has failed be forced into having a baby?

Those are in the minority. I never said they should be aborted.

Reply 541

20

Tufts

Indeed.

Highlighting things in bold does not make it true. It is not solely the woman's choice.

Arguments are beginning to become circular.

Reply 542

17

The_Myth Leader

It is a highly disputed ethical question that the mother cannot answer for herself. Society needs to deem whether killing the potential life is wrong in order for it to be made legal or illegal.

Personally I don't think it is right that the mother has a higher role in deciding whether the baby should be aborted than the father, after all, the baby is part of him as well. Sure the baby is inside the mother. But if they didnt want the baby they shouldn't have been so careless. The father has feelings as well. Just because the baby is inside the mother does not make it the mother's possession. It is potential life we are talking about here. However, that is a side issue.

You sir. Anger me.

The embryo is feeding off the mother NOT the father. Without the mother it would not survive. The farther has had an orgasim. That is the only contribution he has made thus far. Hardly equal to 9 months of pregnancy and childbirth.

Reply 543

20

Tufts

You sir. Anger me.

Does everybody who disagrees with you anger you?

The embryo is feeding off the mother NOT the father. Without the mother it would not survive. The farther has had an orgasim. That is the only contribution he has made thus far. Hardly equal to 9 months of pregnancy and childbirth.

It is not the father's fault that it is the woman who nurtures the baby. The baby, genetically, is still half his. The woman knows that sex could result in pregnancy. If she doesn't want to get pregnant, don't have sex. How can the woman solely judge whether killing this potential life is right or wrong?

Reply 544

17

The_Myth Leader

Does everybody who disagrees with you anger you?

No. But someone who has such a blatant disrespect for women angers me. I hope to god you're gay so women dont have to deal with you on an intimate level.

Reply 545

20

Tufts

No. But someone who has such a blatant disrespect for women angers me. I hope to god you're gay so women dont have to deal with you on an intimate level.

I have lots of respect for women. What makes you think I don't? Just because I value potential life? That doesn't automatically mean I don't respect women. I could say you don't respect men using the same logic - thinking women should have the final decision. Indeed I have even said there are some situations when women should be allowed an abortion. I don't see you calling anyone else as having less respoect for women, or being gay, for holding similar and more extreme views. Seriously! Stop insulting the arguer just to get your point noticed. You've never met me: how do you know if my girlfriend is mistreated? I have the utmost respect for women. I have the utmost respect for life.

Not everybody who disagrees with you disrespects women! Why can't you accept this? Why do you always jump to conclusions? Why don't you attack the argument instead of the arguer? Grow up!

Edit: Sorry, the 'grow up' wasn't necessary.

I don't think the debate is going anywhere, it is only getting more heated. Before more insults are flung, I think I shall depart. I have answered all I can. Arguments are only being recycled. I will respond no further in this thread.

Reply 546

18

So if your Gf got pregnant would you push your views forward onto her? Would you finish with her if she had a termination?

Reply 547

qwerty_st/n

11

I have looked after a number of women recently who were requesting a termination of pregnancy. The circumstances which lead them to that decision is far from being as clear cut as some people seem to be suggesting. Granted, there may be the few that use terminations as a form of contraception, but the number of people who do is a lot lower than you may think.
It's not that easy to get a termination as there is a fair amount of bureaucracy and red tape to get through, and both the doctors and the nurses will make sure that the woman is sure she wants to go through with the procedure, it's really not a decision that people take lightly, and it has to take into account a number of wider issues including any social, economical, psychological and emotional factors. It's nowhere near as black and white as 'abortion is murder'.
Also, having seen the products of conception following a medical termination, in my opinion (and I emphasise the point that this is my own opinion here), a seven week foetus (for example) does not constitute a human life, because it is not developed enough.
You may argue that a 7 week old foetus has the potential to become a life, and I quite agree, but there is also a 20% chance that it won't, given that around one in five pregnancies miscarry on their own, without any intervention.
To say that one is in favour of termination is somewhat harsh, however I believe that every woman has a right to decide what she does with her body. I also feel that 'life' is far more than just existing in the physiological sense, a foetus exists - entirely dependent on the mother, but when it is developed enough to survive outside the womb, then it can be classed as a life.
As I've said, though, this is entirely my own opinion. I don't necessarily expect anyone to agree with me.

Reply 548

17

qwerty_st/n

I have looked after a number of women recently who were requesting a termination of pregnancy. The circumstances which lead them to that decision is far from being as clear cut as some people seem to be suggesting. Granted, there may be the few that use terminations as a form of contraception, but the number of people who do is a lot lower than you may think.
It's not that easy to get a termination as there is a fair amount of bureaucracy and red tape to get through, and both the doctors and the nurses will make sure that the woman is sure she wants to go through with the procedure, it's really not a decision that people take lightly, and it has to take into account a number of wider issues including any social, economical, psychological and emotional factors. It's nowhere near as black and white as 'abortion is murder'.
Also, having seen the products of conception following a medical termination, in my opinion (and I emphasise the point that this is my own opinion here), a seven week foetus (for example) does not constitute a human life, because it is not developed enough.
You may argue that a 7 week old foetus has the potential to become a life, and I quite agree, but there is also a 20% chance that it won't, given that around one in five pregnancies miscarry on their own, without any intervention.
To say that one is in favour of termination is somewhat harsh, however I believe that every woman has a right to decide what she does with her body. I also feel that 'life' is far more than just existing in the physiological sense, a foetus exists - entirely dependent on the mother, but when it is developed enough to survive outside the womb, then it can be classed as a life.
As I've said, though, this is entirely my own opinion. I don't necessarily expect anyone to agree with me.

Excellent post from a student nurse :smile:

Reply 549

18

If only i was that coherent :frown:

Reply 550

qwerty_st/n

11

The_Myth Leader

Those are in the minority. I never said they should be aborted.

Not true. Failures with contraception are a lot more common than you might think.

Reply 551

qwerty_st/n

11

Trigger

If only i was that coherent :frown:

You will be by the time you reach your third year. Trust me!! :smile:

Reply 552

18

Lol thanks, i'm on the DiPHe course, may change at the end though....ooops off topic :smile:

Reply 553

Mr. Mortell

11

The Myth Leader. You're starting to get my very angry here. I seriously dislike you not because of your opinions but the way you are trying to justify making abortion illegal. You seem to think that because you have a right to an opinion [which everyone has the right to] that others shouldn't be listened to? The fact of the matter is that some [well, most] people believe that abortion is acceptable [at least in some circumstances] and therefore it should remain legal.

Perhaps I have been misinformed but it is not exactly easy to get an abortion. It has to be justified and agreed to by 2 doctors? So its not like someone can walk into a hospital and say: "I'd like an abortion please." and its done, as if it was some kind of store...they're have consultations with doctors and support staff and make a sensible decision.

As you have a right to your opinion and to live your life as you see fit, so should others and if they want or need to have an abortion they should have the right to have one.

Reply 554

17

Trigger

If only i was that coherent :frown:

You rock!

Reply 555

18

lol i do dont i :cool:

Reply 556

17

Mr Mortell

As you have a right to your opinion and to live your life as you see fit, so should others and if they want or need to have an abortion they should have the right to have one.

Here. Here.

I cant comprehend why some people dont see the logic here.

Reply 557

AppleCrumble

Tufts

Here. Here.

I cant comprehend why some people dont see the logic here.

Debating it isn't a problem, just making sure that we arn't letting people do something highly illegal/immoral.

Reply 558

20

I said I would not respond to any more arguments, and I will remain true to that, except his unfair accusation grabbed my attention.

Mr Mortell

The Myth Leader. You're starting to get my very angry here. I seriously dislike you not because of your opinions but the way you are trying to justify making abortion illegal.

I am not trying to make abortion illegal. Have you even read my arguments? Have you even considered what I'm saying? There's no point me arguing anymore.

You seem to think that because you have a right to an opinion [which everyone has the right to] that others shouldn't be listened to?

Incorrect. Whatever makes you think that?

The fact of the matter is that some [well, most] people believe that abortion is acceptable [at least in some circumstances] and therefore it should remain legal.

I am entitled to an opinion.

Perhaps I have been misinformed but it is not exactly easy to get an abortion. It has to be justified and agreed to by 2 doctors? So its not like someone can walk into a hospital and say: "I'd like an abortion please." and its done, as if it was some kind of store...they're have consultations with doctors and support staff and make a sensible decision.

I never said this wasn't the case.

As you have a right to your opinion[

I agree others have the right to an opinion, including myself.

and to live your life as you see fit,

Not true. Society's laws limit what I can do on moral grounds.

so should others and if they want or need to have an abortion they should have the right to have one.

I agree others have the right to an opinion, including myself. I, and others, however are limited by what society deems to be morally correct. I have repeated numerous times that the moral decision is not solely the mother's decision. How can the mother decide whether killing potential life is wrong (can you understand the logic?)? That is my concern; my opinion, which I am entitled to. Your attacks are completely unjustified, unwarranted and unprovoked.

Edit: I'll try again, hopefully this will be the last time I shall comment, without any unfair accusations. We're making little ground.

Reply 559