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Abortion

Reply 560

11

What YOU believe to be immoral IN THIS INSTANCE may not be considered immoral. Something like murder [as some of 'you' have been comparing abortion to] is generally seen by almost everyone as something immoral.

EDIT: This post was directed at AppleCrumble.

Reply 561

PinkMobilePhone

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22

ForumFreak

If my mother had been forced to have me then yes I would feel guilty about all the morning sickness, pre eclampsia and labor pain she went through to have me. No one should be forced to have a baby.

you know, not all women get morning sickness - a lot don't. And even for those that do, it doesn't last all the way through the pregnancy anyway.
And as for pre-eclampsia, this is not a condition that effects the majority of women, thankfully.

Labour pain, yes, all pregnant women have to endure labour, but we do indeed have a beautiful thing called an epidural that works fantastically. It really does take away all the pain. I had one - I know what it's like - I'm damn well having one this time round aswell lol!

Don't make pregnancy out to be some kind of terrible terrible thing, because it honestly isn't. You're being very over-dramatic about it.

Reply 562

PinkMobilePhone

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22

Tufts

No. But someone who has such a blatant disrespect for women angers me. I hope to god you're gay so women dont have to deal with you on an intimate level.

Do I have a blatant disrespect for women too then? :s-smilie:

I, too, think that the father ought to have an equal say in what happens to his unborn child. Yes, the woman has to carry it, but it is still the father's child that we are talking about. It's not his fault that he doesn't have a womb.
Imagine if somebody wanted to kill your child against your wishes! It doesn't even bear thinking about.

Reply 563

Talya

16

XenaGlamRocker

Labour pain, yes, all pregnant women have to endure labour, but we do indeed have a beautiful thing called an epidural that works fantastically. It really does take away all the pain. I had one - I know what it's like - I'm damn well having one this time round aswell lol!

My mum's epidural has given her constant back pain and stiffness since. And I'm 19 now.

Reply 564

Tufts

17

XenaGlamRocker

you know, not all women get morning sickness - a lot don't. And even for those that do, it doesn't last all the way through the pregnancy anyway.
And as for pre-eclampsia, this is not a condition that effects the majority of women, thankfully.

Labour pain, yes, all pregnant women have to endure labour, but we do indeed have a beautiful thing called an epidural that works fantastically. It really does take away all the pain. I had one - I know what it's like - I'm damn well having one this time round aswell lol!

Don't make pregnancy out to be some kind of terrible terrible thing, because it honestly isn't. You're being very over-dramatic about it.

Not all women have the same experience as you. You may not think pregnancy is 'a terrible, terrible thing' but a lot of women do. A lot of women have a worse experience than you.

Reply 565

Tufts

17

XenaGlamRocker

It doesn't even bear thinking about.

It's not a 'child' ;no; :rolleyes:

Why do pro-lifers insist on using fictional terms to enhance their ilogical arguments

Reply 566

Llamaaa

15

it's better to end the "life" of a non-thinking non-comprehending organism than to ruin that of a fully living, fully understanding human being. At least the foetus won't know what it's missing.

Reply 567

Trigger

18

that what someone said to me when i was 10 and its stuck with me ever since

Reply 568

bronsonbear

1

Tufts

It's not a 'child' ;no; :rolleyes:

Why do pro-lifers insist on using fictional terms to enhance their ilogical arguments

why is the term child illogical?

i suppose this is really what i'm interested in: many people thing abortion is ok becasue they don't class a feotus as a human being.
but the simple fact is that it becomes one.
so if it startes as not being a child, and finishes a child, at what stage does everything change?
when it has a brain? when it have neurological function? when it can be distressed? when she can think rationally? when he has human body parts?

come on folks, tell me what you think.

Reply 569

Jennybean

13

Hello children. I've come in really late here but I just felt compelled to add my two cents. Does anybody else feel completely baffled by the line "I'm completely against abortion, except in cases where the mother has been raped"? Surely if we shouldn't be allowed to impose our ideas upon the unborn, that should apply to ALL the unborn? Why is a zygote conceived during a rape less important than one conceived inside a loving relationship? If that foetus has the right to life completely irrespective of the mother's wishes, why is it ok to kill those conceived as the result of non-consensual sex? After all, it's not the foetus's fault its dad was a rapist, anymore than it would be the foetus's fault if its mother forgot to take her pill. I would at least have more respect for the pro-lifers if their arguments had a little integrity but the logic of this aspect just evades me completely.

Reply 570

Trigger

18

Lol people have been trying to answer this for centuries! At the end of the day a bunch of cells isnt anything. Its just a bunch of cells. Your heading into danger zones when your up to about 6 months as "technically" a child can survive outside of the womb. Again its up to the individual to what you beleive and any religious teaching you may have recived.

Reply 571

Jennybean

13

I've been trying to look through some of this thread but it mostly just seems to be obtusely principled people going round in circles. They seemed to touch on rape cases a few pages back but didn't really go into it in any detail so I would be quite interested to see what people's responses are. I can't believe some men on this thread have the audacity to call women who have been raped and abort their pregnancy morally weak! As if they could EVER put themselves in that situation. This is just another opportunity for emotionally-stunted men to fire off their authoritarian views about morals and what God wants. Lib North in particular has some enormous holes in his argument (but I don't like him anyway).

Reply 572

Trigger

18

I don't like him either

Reply 573

bronsonbear

1

Jennybean

I can't believe some men on this thread have the audacity to call women who have been raped and abort their pregnancy morally weak! As if they could EVER put themselves in that situation.

hold on, if you read on, the guy who said that explained what he meant by that, which isn't what you've jumped to a conclusion about.

Jennybean

(but I don't like him anyway).

and that's irrelavent.

Reply 574

Melancholy

20

I said I would not participate further in this debate on abortion, however this needed a reply.

Jennybean

I can't believe some men on this thread have the audacity to call women who have been raped and abort their pregnancy morally weak! As if they could EVER put themselves in that situation.

That is a mis-quote. If I was you, I would read my justification for that.

This is just another opportunity for emotionally-stunted men to fire off their authoritarian views about morals and what God wants.

Surprisingly, God has not been mentioned very often in this debate.

Lib North in particular has some enormous holes in his argument (but I don't like him anyway).

Don't make it personal. It's very unprofessional in a debate.

Reply 575

Jennybean

13

bronsonbear

hold on, if you read on, the guy who said that explained what he meant by that, which isn't what you've jumped to a conclusion about.

and that's irrelavent.

I did read on, what have I jumped to a conclusion about, please?
And I never said it was relevant that I don't like Lib North.

Reply 576

Llamaaa

15

i tihnk the rape issue depends entirely on the person. I know that personally I would not be strong enough to carry, give birth to and nurture the offspring of a man who raped me. Maybe I am a weak person, but if that kind of thing happened to me then I would rather not be reminded of it for the next 9 months and god knows how many years of my life. However, other people can do that and I have nothing but admiration for those women. Just I personally could not, and I doubt I am the only one. If it were the result of having sex with my fiance on the other hand I would not abort it, even if it meant that I couldn't complete my degree. As for why the distinction, well, a child with my fiance is a reminder of our love for each other, a child with a rapist is a reminder of degredation, fear and a terrible experience and I would not be strong enough to see the product of that event every day, nor to feel it growing inside me. I would probably kill myself before having that child. Perhaps I am weak, but that's just the way I think. We are all entitled to our personal feelings and preferences.

Reply 577

supercat

2

Jennybean

Hello children. I've come in really late here but I just felt compelled to add my two cents. Does anybody else feel completely baffled by the line "I'm completely against abortion, except in cases where the mother has been raped"? Surely if we shouldn't be allowed to impose our ideas upon the unborn, that should apply to ALL the unborn? Why is a zygote conceived during a rape less important than one conceived inside a loving relationship? If that foetus has the right to life completely irrespective of the mother's wishes, why is it ok to kill those conceived as the result of non-consensual sex? After all, it's not the foetus's fault its dad was a rapist, anymore than it would be the foetus's fault if its mother forgot to take her pill. I would at least have more respect for the pro-lifers if their arguments had a little integrity but the logic of this aspect just evades me completely.

Thank you! This is the point I have been trying to make.

Reply 578

Melancholy

20

Trigger

I don't like him either

Likewise, that's not very fair.

Hopefully nothing else in terms of outlandish claims will trigger my response.

Reply 579

PinkMobilePhone

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22

Tufts

Not all women have the same experience as you. You may not think pregnancy is 'a terrible, terrible thing' but a lot of women do. A lot of women have a worse experience than you.

I never said that all women have the same experience as me.
I stated a few basic facts:
1) not all women get morning sickness
2) pre-eclampsia is not the norm. the majority of pregnant women do not get this.
3) pain relief is available for labour

Talya

My mum's epidural has given her constant back pain and stiffness since. And I'm 19 now.

An unfortunate side effect that sometimes occurs. It is not the norm though. If it was, epidural would not be considered to be a useful medical aid.

Abortions, too, can cause side effects. They are not the norm either, but they can indeed happen:
-prolonged uterine bleeding
-abdominal pain
-nausea & vomiting
-diarrhea
-fever
-infection
-incomplete abortion
-injury to organs or the cervix
-even very rare death

Jennybean

Hello children. I've come in really late here but I just felt compelled to add my two cents. Does anybody else feel completely baffled by the line "I'm completely against abortion, except in cases where the mother has been raped"? Surely if we shouldn't be allowed to impose our ideas upon the unborn, that should apply to ALL the unborn? Why is a zygote conceived during a rape less important than one conceived inside a loving relationship? If that foetus has the right to life completely irrespective of the mother's wishes, why is it ok to kill those conceived as the result of non-consensual sex? After all, it's not the foetus's fault its dad was a rapist, anymore than it would be the foetus's fault if its mother forgot to take her pill. I would at least have more respect for the pro-lifers if their arguments had a little integrity but the logic of this aspect just evades me completely.

Women can become suicidal after being subjected to rape. Not always no, but sometimes.

I went into my views on this on page 24.

Abortion

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